Reply With QuoteThat's good news. I'd have liked to have seen us buy a few too but I doubt it would happen.
Australia to buy 10 C27J for 1,4 billions
10 May 2012 Minister for Defence Stephen Smith and Minister for Defence Materiel Jason Clare today announced that the Government had agreed to purchase 10 Alenia C-27J Spartan Battlefield Airlift aircraft at a cost of $1.4 billion.
http://www.minister.defence.gov.au/2...the-air-force/
That's good news. I'd have liked to have seen us buy a few too but I doubt it would happen.
Would be nice, but it's only good for 10 tons to 1000mi.Originally Posted by Zorro C9
Limited independent utility outside NZ unless Aussie based. More useful for Aussie as a domestic Caribou replacement and mini Herc to push into Timor/Sollies.
Inside NZ buy or lease something cheaper for short haul and stuff like jump training.
Plus we are broke and have to pay for the operational roll out of the A109s and rather expensive NH 90s.
Maybe pickup those Aussie H model Hercs being retired if they have any value in the NZ Herc fleet.
I could see an attempt to pickup some more 2nd hand Hercs IF the price made sense.
A couple C17s or more likely J model super Hercs would probably be the new plane purchase if we could afford it.
Some big big ticket purchases going to be needed down the track in the remainder of this decade:
frigate replacement
current Herc fleet tac airlift replacement
coms(again)
vehicles
small arms
I think we are going to be hard pressed to buy ANY substantial cool stuff unless it's clearly in the MUST HAVE rather than NEED or WANT column.
Just my 0.02 cents.
I must of miss heard the other day, I thought this project was being mothballed. Good to see this capability is being replaced.
I'm just going to reply within your quote if you don't mind, since you've got a lot of points in there.
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Would be nice, but it's only good for 10 tons to 1000mi.
[color=redWhich is quite reasonable[/color]
Limited independent utility outside NZ unless Aussie based. More useful for Aussie as a domestic Caribou replacement and mini Herc to push into Timor/Sollies.
Lots of ulitity for SAR, rescue ops, saving The Islands (again), cheap VIP transport, advanced twin training for that step between Kingair and C130.
Inside NZ buy or lease something cheaper for short haul and stuff like jump training.
Noone in NZ builds anything comprable. PAC have their...XL something but it's not all that suitable.
Plus we are broke and have to pay for the operational roll out of the A109s and rather expensive NH 90s.
Oh yes I totally agree.
Maybe pickup those Aussie H model Hercs being retired if they have any value in the NZ Herc fleet.
Probably for spares. God knows our fleet could do with some reliablity.
I could see an attempt to pickup some more 2nd hand Hercs IF the price made sense.
I don't think the RNZAF would have the support pers to keep them operationally maintained if what I'm hearing is anything to go by.
A couple C17s or more likely J model super Hercs would probably be the new plane purchase if we could afford it.
Like it would be J mods but I doubt it anytime soon. 1. Money. 2. The current fleet has just been rewinged and re-avioniced (woo, making up words time) recently IIRC.
Some big big ticket purchases going to be needed down the track in the remainder of this decade:
frigate replacement
Totally disagree 1 million%. Those frigates are less than 20 years old but could perhaps do with a modernisation. Apart from morale, crewing and a lack of rum on board the name is in good shape, equipment wise.
current Herc fleet tac airlift replacement
Yeah.
coms(again)
Didn't this get done only about 5 or so years ago?
vehicles
small arms
These two I have no idea about so I'll defer.
I think we are going to be hard pressed to buy ANY substantial cool stuff unless it's clearly in the MUST HAVE rather than NEED or WANT column.
Totally agree. Perfect world and all that.
Just my 0.02 cents.
And my as usual uncalled for $20
100 millions bucks and more for this?
Talk about a rip off IMO.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-27J_Spartan
The C-27 is a good replacement for the DHC-4 Caribou in the tactical STOL airlift role.
I think the refurbed Hercs are still only good until 2020-2025.
We have some of the oldest original manufacture Hercs still flying I believe, even upgraded it only extends their life it doesn't really renew it.
So replacement plans will have to firm up by the end of the decade.
The frigates might be in decent shape but a couple things to account for:
southern ocean is hard on gear
aussies are starting to make noises about AnZAC replacement which may force our hand a bit due to economy of scale/cost and continued interoperability.
the gap between king air and herc might mean relying on simulators but i'm no pilot.
coms are recent(but going on 10 years since ordered, first received) but if allies move up to new coms to take advantage of fast accelerating coms tech and network centric data rich coms we may again have our hand forced a bit if we want to play and maintain interoperability with the big boys. I'm speculating on this but suspect I'm not far off the mark. Coms tech is accelerating and I doubt we will get the same useful life(total time in service) out of our far more capable kit in service today than the last generation it replaced that was in service for a long time. OK if we are operating so, but operating in joint environment might mean writing more cheques.
Vehicles/wagons, we will probably need or need to have ordered committed by end of decade.
A couple long range UAVs woyld be nice to network with and force multiply the Orions. Maybe even replace them someday. Might have to spend money we don't have to save money sending out an Expensive per hour Orion or Herc for SAR when a UAV might suit better.
Not expecting to hear anything too innovative or aggressive as I'm a bit cybical and budget realistic.
Just my opinion.
You don't know how much is included.. spareparts, maintainance, training etc..
From an article dated 20 Dec. 2011:
http://air-attack.com/news/article/4...nsporters.html...The Government of Australia requested a possible sale of 10 C-27J aircraft; 23 AE2100D2 Rolls Royce engines; 12 Electronic Warfare Self Protection Suites; 12 AAR-47A(V)2 Missile Warning Systems; 12 ALE- 47(V) Threat Adaptive Countermeasures Dispensing Systems; 12 APR-39B(V)2 Radar Warning Receivers; 13 AN/APN-241 Radar Systems; 44 AN/ARC-210 Warrior Very High Frequency/Ultra High Frequency Communication Systems; 12 KY-100 Units; 12 HF 9550 Radios; 12 APX-119 Identification Friend or Foe (Mode 4); 14 Blue Force Trackers; 12 Portable Flight Mission Planning Systems; support and test equipment; repair and return; spare and repair parts; aircraft ferry and tanker support; personnel training and training equipment; publications and technical data; Operational Flight Simulator, Fuselage, and Maintenance trainers; U.S. Government and contractor representative engineering, logistics, and technical support services; and other related elements of logistics and program support. The estimated cost is $950 million...
Is it just me or is $140 million pretty steep for a light transport?
The frames are cheap, if you look at the list of electronic wizardry, those are expensive.
That's what I though too, India paid hardly $1 billion for 6 x C130J-30s, so what makes them so costly?
Nice. With 6 C-17s, 12 C-130Js, 10 C-27Js and 5 KC-30As, the RAAF will have a pretty good, fully renewed, air transport fleet.
$1.4 billion including support equipment and training for aircrew and maintenance personnel.
Last edited by -Max2-; 05-10-2012 at 10:28 AM.
Given the USAF rejection of the C-27, my concern is that the RAAF will be one of the few customers. Paying a premium on spare parts, and tech support.Given the greater marketshare, the C-295 would've been a better choice.
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