Russia Testing Italian Tank

[Nyusu]

Runner up for the DAOTW - 21th time

In case with tanks i have proven you wrong, so no.

[Rubick]

Not really.

[Nyusu]

Not really.

Ever heard about BT tank series?

[Hisroyalhighness]

1. Why USA, France, Germany, Italy, Japan (China start do this) doing "brain drain"=R&D and Russia don't??? Oh yes i see there are stupiest than Russia and invest to their scientists and engineers. Maybe we are at the stone age and a modern country or society does not characterized of it's tecnological level.

Those nations have not experienced the massive flight of technical minds to "rival" nations, The brain drain that followed the collapse of the Soviet Union helped plunge Russia into a period of technological stagnation where innovation was practically non existent.

2. Because if their domestic industries don't have orders not even from the russian MoD where they will sell???

Really no orders?
Here is an example of the "not" orders regarding the Air Force:

• a second contract for 48 Su-35s in 2014 or 2015, with deliveries in 2016-20.
• a second contract for 24-32 Su-30SMs for naval aviation in 2013-2014, with deliveries in 2015-18.
• accepting the option on 16 more Su-34s, in addition to 124 already ordered, with deliveries through 2020. An additional large contract may be concluded after 2015, so that the air force has a total of 180-200 Su-34s by 2025.
• a contract for 48-72 MiG-35s in 2014-15, with deliveries through 2020. Without such a contract, MiG may have to be shut down.
• a second contract for 12-16 MiG-29Ks for naval aviation is also likely.
• a contract for 32-40 Su-25SM(or TM)/UBMs, with deliveries in 2017-22.
• two contracts for T-50 fifth-generation fighter jets. First one would be 8-12 aircraft for the Lipetsk combat training center. That contract is likely to be concluded in 2013, with deliveries in 2014-16. A second contract for 40-60 aircraft is likely to be concluded in 2015, with deliveries scheduled for 2016-22.

Transport and special aircraft:

• Contract for 30-40 Il-76MD-90As in 2013, with deliveries in 2016-20.
• Contract for 10 An-124-300s in 2015, with deliveries in 2018-22.
• Contract for 30-40 An-70s in 2015, with deliveries in 2019-25.
• 25-30 special purpose Tu-204/214s, with deliveries in 2015-25.
• Contract for 100 multi-functional transport aircraft in 2015, with delivery of the first 30 in 2019-25.
• Contract for 40 light transport aircraft in 2015, with deliveries in 2019-24. Strong possibility that these will be foreign aircraft, such as the Italian C-27J Spartan, assembled in Russia under license.

Here's another "not order" for Nuclear Submarine development:

design of the modernized Yasen-class submarine by the Malakhit design bureau (13.4 billion rubles);
construction of the first modernized Yasen-class submarine, theKazan, by Sevmash (47 billion rubles);
construction of four additional Yasen-class submarines by United Shipbuilding Corporation’s (OSK)Severodvinskshipyard (164 billion rubles);
design of the modernized Borey-class submarine by the Rubin design bureau (39 billion rubles).

And another not order from Foreign powers

Contracts with Libya since 2005 include (prices and year contract concluded listed in parentheses):

• modernization of Libyan S-125 Pechora-2 SAMs (SA-3 in NATO parlance) to the Pechora-2M level (<$100 million) (2009)
• purchase of 12 Tor-M2E SAMs (SA-15 in NATO parlance) ($300 million) (2010, though other reports indicate 2008)
• purchase of an unknown number of Igla-S portable SAMs (SA-24 in NATO parlance) (<$100 million) (2008)
• modernization of 145 T-72 tanks ($300 million) (2010)
• purchase of BMP-3M infantry fighting vehicles ($300 million) (not included on latest list)
• purchase of 6 Yak-130 training aircraft ($120 million) (2010)
• repair of 12 MiG-23ML fighter jets (<$50 million) (2006)
• building a factory in Libya to produce AK-103 machine guns under license ($500 million) (2010)
• purchase of 9M123 Chrystanthemum self-propelled anti-tank missile systems (not included on latest list)
• purchase of 3 Molniya missile boats, with 96 Kh-35 Uran anti-ship missiles ($250 million) (2010)
• repair and modernization of 2 Koni-class frigates and 3 Nanuchka II-class corvettes ($200 million) (2010)

In addition, various reports indicate that negotiations were fairly advanced on an additional $2 billion deal that was to include:

• 12-15 Su-35 fighter jets
• 4 Su-30MK fighter jets
• Il-76 transport planes
• Ka-52 helicopters
• 48 T-90SA tanks
• Pantsir-S1 self-propelled SAMs
• 1-2 Kilo submarines

All of these contracts and potential contracts will undoubtedly be canceled now. If Gaddhafi stays in power, UN sanctions will prevent their fulfillment. If he is replaced, the new leaders will most likely seek to review his military procurement strategy — with a likely shift to a more Western-oriented procurement posture.
Known contracts still to be fulfilled with Algeria are even more extensive:

• purchase of 16 SU-30MKI fighter jets ($1.5 billion)
• modernization of 250 T-72M tanks (150 already completed) (total value $200 million)
• purchase of 16 Yak-130 training aircraft (part of $8 billion deal signed in 2006)
• modernization of one Koni-class frigate and one Nanuchka-class corvette ($100 million)
• purchase of 3 S-300 air defense systems and 38 Pantsir-S1 anti-aircraft missile systems (part of $8 billion deal signed in 2006)

Most of these are leftovers from the big contracts concluded in 2006, with just the fighter jets being a new contract signed in 2010 as a replacement for the canceled deal for MiG-29SMT fighter planes.
Syria is the other major customer for Russia’s military industry. Recent contracts that have yet to be completed include:

• modernization of 24 MiG-29s to SMT level
• purchase of 2 MiG-31M interceptors, second-hand from Russian air force
• purchase of 8 battalions of Buk-M2E missile systems ($1 billion)
• modernization of S-125 Pechora-2 SAMs to the Pechora-2M level
• modernization of 200 T-72 tanks to T-72M1M level (part of $500 million contract to modernize 1000 tanks, 800 already completed)
• purchase of 9M123 Chrystanthemum self-propelled anti-tank missile systems (status uncertain)
• purchase of 36 Pantsir-S1 anti-aircraft missile systems (part of 2006 contract, 30 delivered in 2008-10)
• purchase of 2 K-300 Bastian coastal defense systems

While the recent repression of anti-government protesters in Syria has not yet led to international sanctions or arms embargoes, the political uncertainty that now surrounds the Assad regime must make the Russian suppliers for these contracts very nervous.
Other contracts with potentially vulnerable states in the region include:

• Yemen: purchase of 100 BTR-80A armored vehicles and 50 120-mm towed mortars ($60 million)
• Egypt: modernization of 20 S-125 Pechora-2 SAMs to the Pechora-2M level (10 completed)
• Kuwait: purchase of BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicles
• Kuwait: purchase of 2 Murena assault hovercraft (as payment for Russian debt to Kuwait)
• Jordan: construction of factory to make Khashim RPGs
• Lebanon: purchase of 6 Mi-24 helicopters
• Lebanon: purchase of 31 T-72M1 tanks
• Lebanon: purchase 36 M-46 130mm towed guns
• United Arab Emirates: purchase of 50 Pantsir-S1 anti-aircraft missile systems (16 delivered) ($800 million). Deal originally made in 2000, first deliveries delayed from 2003 to 2009.

http://russiamil.wordpress.com/

India start to complain about russian quality and producing their own hardware or buying from western companies.

If they can't handle routine maintenance, that's their problem.

In your country i guess at your civil life you have many russian made products.

Strawman argument. But I have Kaspersky Lab: Anti Virus software on my Computer.

Two are the key sectors of Russian economy export oil gas and other raw materials and export millitary equipment, if it start import millitary equipment instead of exporting revenues cut by half.

Are you some kind of imbecile? Only two key sectors? ever hear of the Space Industry? Railroad? Automotive? Agriculture? Construction? Information Technology? Military makes up 14-16% of Russia's exports, nice try.

3. I dont care about politics. Politics are for the politicians to have a good life..

Then you obviously don't grasp political and economic ramifications, what a surprise.

4. And one last thing you are not real friend of Russia you are an internet "friend" you don't know anything about what is good for Russia. All these alleged "friends" they don't see anything beyond their noses...

I bet you can't even see the blatant hypocrisy of this statement.

End of conversation by my side.

This "conversation" is actually you spewing mental vomit and re-enforicing the belief that you are an idiot.

[wheeleuss]

That's what I thought and "feared" (was not the suspension the really important part in being able to fire the gun?). I would not be surprised if some of the small lessons learned from studying this vehicle will be incorporated into the next BTR class. This can be seen as a bad thing from the old NATO vs. Russia point of view, or from the more problematic point of giving away knowledge to a probable competitor.

I think Russia may want to buy the Centauro license, not for the final product, but more for the small knowhow (to help them refine their products; they already know how to build them). Iveco just happens to be a company willing to sell, located in a country that allows for that. Who knows, it may also be a way for Iveco to convince Italy in upgrading to the SuperAV platform (I assume the base for the Centauro 2).

"Small lessons"? Not that small indeed!! For "small lessons" it would be sufficient a trip to IVECO! I think Russians are really interested in chassis design and especially in transmission, that allows for a significantly reduced silhouette compared to VBCI or Boxer etc

Any other European country would have allowed this. Cold war is ended.. France, i.e., has sold two complete ships!

SuperAV has little to do with Centauro. It is a lighter and less sophisticated vehicle. Centuro 2 is a new vehicle based on a further improved Freccia chassis and a completely new 120mm turret (30/32 tons GWV , 750 hp engine)

[Nyusu]

With such generalization it's more about all Old World. If not about entire humanity.

Even if we take look at last 100 years - whole Soviet industry and even culture(like art, songs and movies) was all about copying and evolving foreign concepts. Culture for example was very highly influenced by Germany prior war(same songs with just different text, 1 to 1 copies of some movies etc). Its not like its a bad thing, as long on can evolve far enough. Car industry for example sadly couldn't manage that.

[BogT]

Any other European country would have allowed this. Cold war is ended.. France, i.e., has sold two complete ships!

Not so sure! I think this statement still depends on the system. The Mistral deal was controversial, but the ship does use a civilian standard for manufacturing and a lot of the electronic systems will be Russian. Probably it would not be the same thing if a Horizon class frigate was the subject of the discussion. On the other hand, if Poland would of wanted a Horizon class frigate (ignoring the money issue), no objections would arise.

Even if the Cold War ended, Russia and NATO are still confrontational parties with some joint interests rather than allies that argue from time to time.

SuperAV has little to do with Centauro. It is a lighter and less sophisticated vehicle. Centuro 2 is a new vehicle based on a further improved Freccia chassis and a completely new 120mm turret (30/32 tons GWV , 750 hp engine)

You are right! I don't know why (maybe due to the similar shape) but I thought that Centauro was based on Freccia and Freccia was a much older (order of decades) design. SuperAV looks "cool" and modern, but looks don't mean everything. Thanks for making me realize that Freccia is a new platform.

[Az_esm]

Even if we take look at last 100 years - whole Soviet industry and even culture(like art, songs and movies) was all about copying and evolving foreign concepts.

Like Constructivism?
(Btw I'm not fan of Soviet concept at all, so if you are searching the guy who would "defend" them in all areas-it's not me, dont' bother)

Culture for example was very highly influenced by Germany prior war(same songs with just different text, 1 to 1 copies of some movies etc).

By "songs" you mean the airforce-march? In fact it was German commies who copied it from soviets.)

Its not like its a bad thing, as long on can evolve far enough.

The bad thing is when you are trying to replace real historical analysis with ideological BS.

[Hyde]

You are right! I don't know why (maybe due to the similar shape) but I thought that Centauro was based on Freccia and Freccia was a much older (order of decades) design. SuperAV looks "cool" and modern, but looks don't mean everything. Thanks for making me realize that Freccia is a new platform.

It's the other way around, the Centauro as a wheeled tank destroyer was first, and then when the wheeled APC trend broke out, the Freccia was developed on the Centauro as a basis. And the Centauro, even though older than newer APCs, makes for a good basis because it is a heavy platform (24t, while at the time it was developed 8x8 vehicles were around 10-13t) and was designed to cope with the force of a tank cannon.

[RomeoTangoFoxtrotIndigo]

Royal Highness, you're one of the members here I enjoy reading comments from. Don't get drawn into discussions with CCCP7, guy obviously has a problem, don't risk the wrath of the mods leave that to the genius that is CCCP7. The ironic part is that he is obviously very proud of the Soviet Union, but dislikes Russia (yes, I know they're two different things)

[Hisroyalhighness]

UPDATE: Thanks to Arbody.

B1 Centauro froze in tests.
http://www.militaryparitet.com/ttp/d...5/-Pozdrawiam!

However officials at the tests were impressed with the Centauro's acceleration, 120's accuracy+on the move, and overall stability.