EU bankers ponder Greek euro exit

[KoTeMoRe]

You are again posing a false paradigm. Healthcare needs to be reformed to actually reduce costs, and get the government out of the equation as much as possible.

And again, you refuse to acknowledge the reality that we can no longer afford to spend as much as we spend on healthcare and costs continue to spiral upwards, thus big cuts are thus inevitable. The bottom line is that we either learn to do more with less, or the quality and availability of healthcare in this nation will both plummet. Obamacare has been a freakin' disaster so far, further increasing costs while driving providers and health insurers out of business. Medicare is doing the same. Talk to any doctor or hospital manager, and see what they have to say. They are the ones on the front lines, the ones in the trenches facing the realities and caught in the squeeze between trying to make enough to get by while reimbursements shrink and their cost of doing business escalates faster all the time. I know several doctors that got out of the business entirely because of this, and that is a rapidly growing trend. Our system is crumbling, and just throwing money at it will only keep the problematic systems in place a little longer, making their eventual failure all the more painful. It *must* change, or the results will be horrific.

I pointed to the social spending in General, but even if you want to gargle about your healthcare, there are enough indicators that no matter the reformation you want to have, the very foundation (immaterial, logical) is wrong. But that is not my point. The point is your doom predictions are actually way under the mark in terms of terrifying.

[KoTeMoRe]

How i forgot. Marxism teaches that Capitalism = war

Marxism is War on itself. So that or the K. the end-game is the same. So really no bias there.

[Ought Six]

I pointed to the social spending in General, but even if you want to gargle about your healthcare, there are enough indicators that no matter the reformation you want to have, the very foundation (immaterial, logical) is wrong. But that is not my point. The point is your doom predictions are actually way under the mark in terms of terrifying.

So by "the very foundation", are you referring to capitalism itself being "wrong"?

[KoTeMoRe]

So by "the very foundation", are you referring to capitalism itself being "wrong"?

Nope missed again. Capitalism is not right or wrong. With the right initial situation capitalism can develop into a status quo and become obsolete by itself, but that would mean people would play by the rules.

What is wrong is the fact that there is no general health care system in the richest despite twice the spending per capita.

[Ought Six]

Nope missed again. Capitalism is not right or wrong. With the right initial situation capitalism can develop into a status quo and become obsolete by itself, but that would mean people would play by the rules.

What is wrong is the fact that there is no general health care system in the richest despite twice the spending per capita.

So all the other nations have demographically/economically unsustainable systems, and our problem is that we do not have a system like them.

[KoTeMoRe]

So all the other nations have demographically/economically unsustainable systems, and our problem is that we do not have a system like them.

The problem is that you have a far less sustainable system than all those other nations and yet you are the last ones to do crap about it.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Man you are talking about 1.8 million tourists in a small island in 4 months mostly. You're funking me with me aren't you? Then when the locals are putting up with a little noise and pollution from the visitors, I bet the visitors have other plans in mind when they step in Eivissa.

Now on Athens...it was built during the Fcking Olympics...what other white elephants you see in the Region?

Outside of Australia's major cities IE the capitol cities, Newcastle, Gold Coast and Cairns Australia in terms of infrastructure is no better then many parts of Africa. Hell even in my city of 500,000 a lot of homes are not even connected to the sewage network nor do are they hooked up to the water network.

Yes at times Australia has embarked on major building projects. BUT at no time have we ever gone and tried to turn a developing nation into a developed well educated nation overnight as many European countries have.

Countries like Greece, Spain and others need to live within their means. Yes going into debt is needed. It's a fact of life. But you are never going to turn Greece into a Denmark, Holland or Switzerland within the time frame they tried to do.

It has no heavy industry, it has no natural resources, and it has a history of corruption and unstable government. I'm sorry but Greece tried to do too much too soon and will soon take the world down with it.

[Ought Six]

The problem is that you have a far less sustainable system than all those other nations and yet you are the last ones to do crap about it.

No question, we have political gridlock on serious reform of healthcare and the entire rest of our welfare state. I think that may be about to change. But even if the Repubs take the White House and the Senate, I remain unconvinced there will be serious enough reform to stave off the inevitable. I think the problems in all the industrialized nations are so deep and systemic that a serious economic collapse will be a required engine of real change. We shall see.

[Nyusu]

Outside of Australia's major cities IE the capitol cities, Newcastle, Gold Coast and Cairns Australia in terms of infrastructure is no better then many parts of Africa. Hell even in my city of 500,000 a lot of homes are not even connected to the sewage network nor do are they hooked up to the water network.

Is that something to be proud about?

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Is that something to be proud about?

Of course not. What it does show is that even with strong diversified economies you simply can not expect everything to be provided on a silver plate. It's just not financially sustainable to provide everything for everybody.

[Flagg]

It has no heavy industry, it has no natural resources, and it has a history of corruption and unstable government. I'm sorry but Greece tried to do too much too soon and will soon take the world down with it.

The world is not going down the dunny because of Greece....if it was.....then we'd truly deserve it.

If Greece were not allowed in the EU, only Greece and her direct creditors would be affected.

I wrote this here 3 years ago:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...=1#post3961484

It still fits.

Especially the metaphor/analogy for the US(Saturn rocket) and the EU(N-1 rocket).

Greece is a spark that could cook off the EU(N-1).....and since it's on the launch pad next to the US(Saturn) it will cascade and cook off everything if allowed.

Greece is like a really poorly engineered and manufactured turbo pump on N-1 engine number #9...that's all it takes for the EU(N-1) to fail in it's inability to harmonize so many different engines without the right tools(federal system, bond market, etc).....for the US(Saturn), it's far easier....but still highly vulnerable to adjacent catastrophic failure.

It's not the end of the world......but it is the end of the financial world as we know it.

A new international financial system will be implemented by the time this is over.

It's like the Death Star cooking off....financial fireworks show.....just in really really slow motion.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

I personally want the Euro to crash and burn.......Will make 6 months of my life extremely profitable.

[KoTeMoRe]

Outside of Australia's major cities IE the capitol cities, Newcastle, Gold Coast and Cairns Australia in terms of infrastructure is no better then many parts of Africa. Hell even in my city of 500,000 a lot of homes are not even connected to the sewage network nor do are they hooked up to the water network.

Yes at times Australia has embarked on major building projects. BUT at no time have we ever gone and tried to turn a developing nation into a developed well educated nation overnight as many European countries have.

Countries like Greece, Spain and others need to live within their means. Yes going into debt is needed. It's a fact of life. But you are never going to turn Greece into a Denmark, Holland or Switzerland within the time frame they tried to do.

It has no heavy industry, it has no natural resources, and it has a history of corruption and unstable government. I'm sorry but Greece tried to do too much too soon and will soon take the world down with it.

Mhh as a matter of fact I understand now what the problem is. The problem is that you people need to cool down, without European overspending and expansion (this starting since the freaking 17th century east wards) much of the modern world would not exist. I put forward at least one European historical expansion (and bloody at that) that sent the world in an inflationary spiral in a century time.

And please do tell what are the Swiss, Belgian or Danish natural resources they built their fortune on? That shall provide for entertainment. No one tried to pull Greece to those levels, but you cannot have a disparity in a political, economical and social Union like EU. The whole EU deal is making Europe if not ONE, at least pretty cohesive so to avoid past conflicts. And frankly the Idea was and is the most sensible approach to the modern world one can devise.

History of Corruption and unstable government? While I can give you corruption, Greece has it issues because the government there has been largely stable (maybe you thought about Italy) allowing nepotism to hook on. The Greek Miracle has been by far more dramatic than the EU zone accession. This reflected by the private savings rate.

[Ought Six]

http://www.*******.com/article/2012/...85K1I820120621

^^^ R E U T E R S ^^^

[Silent Reader]

The Brits still love us...