Guys, political comments with regards Germany are going way off topic.
The monument is not in any condition to be repaired or restores
its condition has so deteriorated that it is now beyond repair,
and the only course of action is to demolish it before it collapses
and kills or injures somebody.
Russian troops liberated many people of Europe, perhaps not Germans. Please stop with "brutal regime" crap. Germans got off easy after what you did in Russia. A monument in a park. Wow. Horrible stuff. FYI. SU regime was brutal only to Russians.Originally Posted by CJvR
The monument should be kept, as a reminder of wasted lives. A warning to the future generations.
I am sure Czechs, Hungarians, Poles, people of the Baltic states, Cosacks etc. would strongly disagree. But that's not the topic here, so if you want to defend Stalin and his policy, please open another thread. We never ever had that type revisionism, sorry, discussion, here and are eager to talk about it.
Rebury soldiers (done), erect a commemorative plaque or small statue to commemorate the monument if it cannot be restored or relocated - all good.
I think you're loosing perspective here. Czech, Hungarians and Cosacks where allied with Nazis and attacked Russia. They were treated fairly decent for former ENEMIES. Vae Victis. Look it up.
Polish were allied with Russia in WW2.
Are you trolling, or actually serious?
You realize Russia attacked their "ally" Poland right?
And that the Czech never attacked Russia?
Everything is so simple for you. In 1939, Czech just surrendered, without firing a shot, supplying Germans with excellent Czech tanks and weaponry for the rest of the war. Very large portions of German tanks and trucks in the begging of Barbarossa was Czech. They got a fair deal after the war.
Situation with Poland was not straight forward, as the exile government was not friend of Russia, but not enemy either. One thing for certain, Poland was against Germany, so the both parties had similar goals.
With regards perspectives research about the forceful repatriation to the Soviet Union of Cossacks who fought for old one ball's side. Not one of Britain's shinning historical moments.
Anyway back on topic:-
Monument to commemorate Prussian WW1 War dead buried there.
Point 1 :- WW1 Prussian War dead relocated to another German Military Cemetery.
Point 2 :- The monument structural quality seriously deteriorated to a point where its unsalvageable.
Point 3 :-The reason for the monuments existence is no more, (see point 1)
Point 4:- Its French soil, so French decision to demolish a dangerous structure.
Point 5:- End of story.
Is it the first time I agree with you?
I sometimes wonder how your thought processes work. SO Czechs deserve what they got from the Soviets for falling under the Third Reich and being Occupied by them? and you wonder why the soviets are hated still in certain countries? its attitudes like yours.
Gee ya think? after only asking for months about POW's to find they were executed by NKVD? after being stabbed in back by invading while Poland desperately tried to fend off the Soviet Unions Ally, Nazi Germany?
You have to put things in context here, that's all. Soviet Union establishing commie governments in former enemies countries wasn't a horrible crime as other posters suggested. What Germans and allies did in Western Russia during occupation was horrible, not establishing commie state in Czechoslovakia. Did Czech deserved Russian liberation/occupation? Perhaps if Americans got there first, they would be better off, but Russians got there first. It was bad luck for them.
So soviets are hated? So what? I hate soviets too, but i try not to be blinded by hate.
Politics is a nasty business, but Polish are not know for cold calculations. Their hate for Russia got the best of them, so instead of allying with Russia, they did with Brits. Who obviously could not help them in any significant way due to geography. Also it is not a secret that they tried to negotiate with Hitler as well, but Stalin outmaneuver them on the diplomatic front. In the end, they did ally and together with Russians liberated their own country.
It was because of Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, Russia where given back lands taken during WW1 by Germans. Had Poland had an opportunity to back stab Russian, there is no doubt in my mind they would have done so. They certainly attacked Russia in 1919 during the Civil war without any regards. There were no good guys there.
People repeat the same nonsense over and over again. For your information, roughly 1/3 of these, that lands the Soviet Union took, had belonged to Austro-Hungary before WWI and it had nothing to do with Russia, for example Lwow, Tarnopol, Stanislawow, etc. At the end of 18 century Russia, Prussia and Austria partitioned Poland and had taken all its land. Following your logic, Poland also "attacked" Russia to get Warsaw as it had belonged to Russia before WWI. If we had not taken anything, there would not have been an independent Polish state after WWI. Simple as that. The fact is, Russia had been defeated by Germany at the end of WWI and signed a humiliating peace treaty in Brest-Litovsk. Then the German troops started redeploying to the Western Front and there was not any Russian administration in these territories taken by the Germans. The Germans occupied much more Russian territory than Poland took after WWI. If Poland had really wanted to take more territory, it would have been pretty possible as the Soviet Government offered entire Belarus with Minsk to Poland just to sign a peace treaty as soon as possible, to use more troops to fight with the Whites, and Poland refused it not to have any bigger proportion of ethnic minorities in its population (we had about 29% of ethnic minorities before WWII).
Interestingly, the USSR took a significiant part of Czechoslovakian territory after WWII, although Czechoslovakia was not at war with the USSR. On the contrary, there was a Czechoslovakian Corps fighting alongside with the Soviets at the end of WWII. These lands had not belonged to Russia before WWI, either. So what will you say? Again, your explanation will be the Germans used a lot of Czechoslovakian equipment to attack the USSRSurprisingly, they did not ask the Czechs or Slovaks if they could use it. The Germans used French, Polish, Belgian and Dutch equipment, as well.
Last edited by Musashi; 05-24-2012 at 11:05 AM.
Czechs and Slovaks were two separate countries from 39 to 45. Slovakia clearly attacked Poland and then Russia with the German forces. As for the Czechs providing industrial products to the German war machine, donīt forget there was a large German minority in the Czech lands. Oskar Schindler for example was born in the Czech Republic, had a factory there (that is where the Jews he saved finally were liberated) and yet was an ethnic German.
EDIT: I should have said Oskar Schindler was born in what now is the Czech Republic. At the time, it was the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Shame on me for messing up his first name too.
Last edited by Telmar; 05-24-2012 at 11:26 AM. Reason: precision
I don't blame Poland for rising up against foreign power and they should have taken Minsk and all, since they had and opportunity. Imho.
Oh and they used Russian equipment too. They point is, was Poland and Czech liberated? Was communist regimes that horrible? That's the argument is all about. It's might not be clear cut, but certainly Russians were much lesser evil for many people.Interestingly, the USSR took a significiant part of Czechoslovakian territory after WWII, although Czechoslovakia was not at war with the USSR. On the contrary, there was a Czechoslovakian Corps fighting alongside with the Soviets at the end of WWII. These lands had not belonged to Russia before WWI, either. So what will you say? Again, your explanation will be the Germans used a lot of Czechoslovakian equipment to attack the USSR
Being the "lesser evil" than the Nazis doesn't say much does it?
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