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Thread: Etymology of the World Wars

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    Tom of Mumbai's fluffer ubermensche's Avatar
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    Default Etymology of the World Wars

    I've always wondered when and who came up with the terms "World War I" and "World War II". I mean the name of these 2 wars couldn't have just come out of the blue. I wonder if anyone here can find a specific date or even article that used these terms, or just have a discussion about it.

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    Bush Lawyer, that's me! TheKiwi's Avatar
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    WW 1 was referred to as "The Great War" until after WW2 started. The term WW2 is first seen as early as 1940.

    EDIT: I'll add that in the growing tension of the 1930's, there were a great many references to "the dangers of a second great war"...
    Last edited by TheKiwi; 05-22-2012 at 11:36 PM. Reason: Added stuff

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    We did something similar on pencil and paper in College. (early 90's)
    A couple of us history dorks made a chart with the contributing factors of WW1 and the consequences.

    Bottom line.....we are still feeeling the aftershocks of the Great War. Especially in the Middle East.

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    Moderator James's Avatar
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    Some history geeks will argue that the 7 Years/French and Indian War was the first truly global war. It was fought between Britain, France, Spain, and proxies in Europe, North America, Africa, and India.

    As for accepted history these days, what others have stated is accurate. Until WWII, WWI was "The Great War" or "The War To End All Wars", though, in conversation, people just referred to "the war". No other descriptors were necessary.

    It's an interesting subject in the larger sense of how names for things have changed, especially depending on the nationality of those involved in the discussion. To an American, the "Civil War" (aka the War Between the States, or the War Of Northern Aggression) is one thing. To the rest of the world, it is just a civil war. What we call the Boer War today was, to an Englishman a century ago, "the South African War". For an American, the "War with Spain" has become the Spanish American War.

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    Senior Member artjomh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Some history geeks will argue that the 7 Years/French and Indian War was the first truly global war. It was fought between Britain, France, Spain, and proxies in Europe, North America, Africa, and India.
    It wasn't a World War because it didn't include Russians, Turks or any of the Scandinavians.

    First truly global war was the European power conflict between 1793 and 1815. You have France and Britain fighting in Europe, Central America, West Indies, Argentina, French-supported local war against British in India, Russia fighting French-supported Persians and Ottomans, Brits against the Ottomans, then against Russians, then against French-supported Danes, then you have Danes and Russians against Swedes and then Swedes against Danes in Norway, Ottomans and Russians in the Balkans and finally United States against numerous Ottoman-supported north Africans.

    It was pretty much a non-stop state of war between all existing major powers of the day in all parts of the world.

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    Actually the first known reference of "The First World War" was in 1918, in the diary of Lt Col Charles à Court Repington, when he mentions a meeting with a Major Johnston of Havard University, to discuss what historians should call the war.

    Ideas included "The War", which was too vague and "The German War", which gave a little bit too much credit to the Germans. Eventually they settled on "The First World War" and in 1920 he published a book "The First World War 1914-1918"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_à_Court_Repington

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    Tom of Mumbai's fluffer ubermensche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    It's an interesting subject in the larger sense of how names for things have changed, especially depending on the nationality of those involved in the discussion. To an American, the "Civil War" (aka the War Between the States, or the War Of Northern Aggression) is one thing. To the rest of the world, it is just a civil war. What we call the Boer War today was, to an Englishman a century ago, "the South African War". For an American, the "War with Spain" has become the Spanish American War.
    Not to mention how the Russians called their war against Napoleon "The Great Patriotic war" before handing that title down to World War 2.

    Considering how these names change, I wonder if it's possible that when we look back in say 20-30 years, we'd qualify the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as a "World War" considering the amount of countries implicated.

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    Senior Member Mark Sman's Avatar
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    and in 1920 he published a book "The First World War 1914-1918"
    Wow, what a coldly cynical and accurate way of calling it at that time.

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    Moderator James's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ubermensche View Post
    Considering how these names change, I wonder if it's possible that when we look back in say 20-30 years, we'd qualify the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as a "World War" considering the amount of countries implicated.
    It's commonly referred to as "The Global War On Terrorism" in U.S. Gov't circles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by artjomh View Post
    It wasn't a World War because it didn't include Russians, Turks or any of the Scandinavians.
    I didn't realize one of those nations had to participate in order for a war to be called a World War.

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    Tom of Mumbai's fluffer ubermensche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    It's commonly referred to as "The Global War On Terrorism" in U.S. Gov't circles.
    Yeah, that answers my question I suppose...

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    Senior Member tluassa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artjomh View Post
    It wasn't a World War because it didn't include Russians, Turks or any of the Scandinavians.

    First truly global war was the European power conflict between 1793 and 1815. You have France and Britain fighting in Europe, Central America, West Indies, Argentina, French-supported local war against British in India, Russia fighting French-supported Persians and Ottomans, Brits against the Ottomans, then against Russians, then against French-supported Danes, then you have Danes and Russians against Swedes and then Swedes against Danes in Norway, Ottomans and Russians in the Balkans and finally United States against numerous Ottoman-supported north Africans.

    It was pretty much a non-stop state of war between all existing major powers of the day in all parts of the world.

    The 7 years War already had all important aspects to qualify as a World War.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...enYearsWar.png

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    Quote Originally Posted by artjomh View Post
    It wasn't a World War because it didn't include Russians, Turks or any of the Scandinavians.

    First truly global war was the European power conflict between 1793 and 1815. You have France and Britain fighting in Europe, Central America, West Indies, Argentina, French-supported local war against British in India, Russia fighting French-supported Persians and Ottomans, Brits against the Ottomans, then against Russians, then against French-supported Danes, then you have Danes and Russians against Swedes and then Swedes against Danes in Norway, Ottomans and Russians in the Balkans and finally United States against numerous Ottoman-supported north Africans.

    It was pretty much a non-stop state of war between all existing major powers of the day in all parts of the world.
    Didn't really qualify because it was basically France VS everyone else (the allies of France where mostly made along the way or on a short term basis). And it wasn't constant, there was numerous peace treaties between the coalitions wars.

    The idea behind the term "world war" is that you really have two sides (or we could imagine more) with several world powers in each side fighting everywhere in the world. Had it been, let's say Russia the USA and France VS the others, that would have been closer to the concept. (Which is why a lot of people tend to say the 7 years war fit as a 1st world war)

    Also there is the idea of constant fighting, total war, be it WWI or WWII there was not a day without combat during years, which was AFAIK unprecedented.

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    Mr. Liberal LineDoggie's Avatar
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    When I was a Kid a relative gave me a set of Leather bound rag paper books the great events of the great war published in 1920's. Many of the pages werent even cut apart and had lots of Raemakers cartoons and Illustrations hand colored and protected by onion skin papers.
    This is them
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Set-Of-The-G...item4d017988e6

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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    So What we call the Boer War today was, to an Englishman a century ago, "the South African War".
    There were three seperate campaign medals for wars in South Africa during Queen Victoria's reign - only the last was for the Boer war (there was also a King's South Africa medal for latter part of the Boer war fought during the reign of Edward VII).

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Sman View Post
    Wow, what a coldly cynical and accurate way of calling it at that time.
    Particularly as it arguably didn't finish until 1919 or even 1920. Many British war memorials give 1414-1919 because of casualties in Russia after the armistice with Germany.

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