Etymology of the World Wars

[James]

It's only a World War, from the date Britain enters, to the date our enemies surrender. Anyone scrapping before this such as Serbians v Austrians in 1914 or Japan invading Manchuria is simply immature and over eager. Anyone after us is just embarrassingly late to the party

Haha

[James]

I've done some more reading, and some people have referred to the Cold War as "WW III" and the GWOT as "WW IV"

The Cold War was fought by the U.S. and the USSR/Warsaw Pact (mainly by proxy) in Asia, Africa, and Central America. There were a fair number of non shooting confrontations (between the US and USSR) in Europe as well. The Soviets didn't hesitate in shooting Hungarians in 1956 or Czechs in 1968.

The U.S. and Allies have fought the GWOT in North America, Europe, Africa, and Asia.

[calimero2]

Not to mention how the Russians called their war against Napoleon "The Great Patriotic war" before handing that title down to World War 2.

The war against Napoleon was called "Patriotic War" or "Patriotic War of 1812" (Отечественная война 1812 года), never "Great Patriotic War" (Великая Отечественная война). The latter term was used for the first time in 1941.

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%...B9%D0%BD%D0%B0

[KoTeMoRe]

September 1, 1939 to September 2, 1945 is more of a traditional textbook dating rather than a period that fits any concrete definition of a "world war".

You can easily separate the constituent components of WW2 (Second Sino-Japanese War, Winter War, Soviet-Japanese border conflict, Phoney War, Continuation War, Great Patriotic War, Pacific Theater of Operations) and say that these are all separate wars, just like the France and Co. vs the World adventures I described earlier.

It's a matter of perspective and, I guess, traditional historiography.

Ehem we (Albania) were invaded in April 1939...I know it sounds like a joke, but the fact remains.

[ubermensche]

I've done some more reading, and some people have referred to the Cold War as "WW III" and the GWOT as "WW IV"

The Cold War was fought by the U.S. and the USSR/Warsaw Pact (mainly by proxy) in Asia, Africa, and Central America. There were a fair number of non shooting confrontations (between the US and USSR) in Europe as well. The Soviets didn't hesitate in shooting Hungarians in 1956 or Czechs in 1968.

The U.S. and Allies have fought the GWOT in North America, Europe, Africa, and Asia.

Meh. I kinda disagree. The 40 or so years of the Cold War can't really be considered one huge war per se. It was relatively sporadic and no fighting ever directly involved the 2 major powers at once. Thinking about it, the Cold War should be more considered a race: the arms race, the space race, and others. IMO the Cold War really had a low probability to truly become hot because no one wanted that. If they did, they could've just pointed out some random event and start it from there, just like in WW1. Both basically tried to dissolve the other into not fighting because they didn't want to fight but didn't want to show it neither.

As for the GWOT, it is a global war in that it spans quite some places. However I don't believe that we've reached a state of "total war", where the war becomes the central element of the economy and of society. And that's maybe where the biggest difference between GWOT and the World Wars lies.

[James]

Meh. I kinda disagree. The 40 or so years of the Cold War can't really be considered one huge war per se.

Call it whatever you want, about 90K American servicemen died fighting Communism between the end of WWII (1945) and the fall of the USSR (1991).

IMO the Cold War really had a low probability to truly become hot because no one wanted that.

In the early/mid 1980s, my family and I lived in Germany. My parents were U.S. Army Officers. I clearly remember a couple of times when things got pretty spooky. Worst case, my younger sister and I were to be sent to Montana to live with an aunt and uncle while mom and dad disappeared.

Your opinion with 20/20 hindsight is interesting, but that's about it.

[Ichabod]

Call it whatever you want, about 90K American servicemen died fighting Communism between the end of WWII (1945) and the fall of the USSR (1991).



In the early/mid 1980s, my family and I lived in Germany. My parents were U.S. Army Officers. I clearly remember a couple of times when things got pretty spooky. Worst case, my younger sister and I were to be sent to Montana to live with an aunt and uncle while mom and dad disappeared.

Your opinion with 20/20 hindsight is interesting, but that's about it.

It is scary how many times the world got to an inch close to anihiliation during the cold war.
Thankfully it never got beyond the point of no return.

[ubermensche]

Call it whatever you want, about 90K American servicemen died fighting Communism between the end of WWII (1945) and the fall of the USSR (1991).

Indeed, but the question is: are these wars to be delt as one huge war, or separate wars. IMO it's the latter due to the time between the wars. All the fronts during WW1 and WW2 were pretty much fought simultaneously or in between a short period and all had some sort of a strategic relationship.

In the early/mid 1980s, my family and I lived in Germany. My parents were U.S. Army Officers. I clearly remember a couple of times when things got pretty spooky. Worst case, my younger sister and I were to be sent to Montana to live with an aunt and uncle while mom and dad disappeared.

I'm a 90's kid, so I've never lived through the Cold War, but I don't doubt that there were many really scary cases where sh1t had some real chances of becoming hot and serious. It seems that when it came to the Nuclear Option, each side was waiting for the other to cross the nuclear line, and they won't cross it unless the other does. My guess is that this "mutual passivity" is what ultimately prevented a Nuclear Holocaust.

The Cold War was fought more than just on a military front. It was also fought on a social, economical and technological front. In the end, the victory proved to be not military, but economical.

Now back to the main subject. I think that the classical definition of "World War" includes the concept of "Total War", which AFAIK wasn't the case during the Cold War period, at least for the US; I'm not sure about the Russians since military spending consisted of up to 50% of their GDP at times...

[artjomh]

I'm not sure about the Russians since military spending consisted of up to 50% of their GDP at times...

This is just patently untrue! Stop mindlessly parroting this Team B nonsense.

USSR's military budget as a percentage of GDP was highest in 1960's (at around 15%) and was going down to around 10% in 1970's and around 8% in 1980's.

USSR was a 2,5 trillion dollar economy. Are you seriously suggesting that it spent over a trillion dollars on defence? Please think before you answer.

[ubermensche]

This is just patently untrue! Stop mindlessly parroting this Team B nonsense.

USSR's military budget as a percentage of GDP was highest in 1960's (at around 15%) and was going down to around 10% in 1970's and around 8% in 1980's.

USSR was a 2,5 trillion dollar economy. Are you seriously suggesting that it spent over a trillion dollars on defence? Please think before you answer.

I remember seeing that somewhere in some documentary, actually it was Commanding Heights during my economy class...

So yeah...chances are my sources can be wrong...