Scuffle in Ukraine’s Parliament Thwarts Language Bill Consideration

[Flamming_Python]

Don't forget the staple of "born in USSR" glamor - Adidas track pants and flat hats.

Thankfully, the pointy Alladin shoes are slowly going away.

It's funny how that's the style practised by Russians in the US, whereas in Russia itself its the style practiced by Caucasus peoples :P

Some of our resident racists in Russia will probably have a heart attack if they ever went down to Brighton Beach in the US

[Flamming_Python]

I don't think they actually care about it. It's probably more connected to the long-term project of "nation-building" which seems to be quite effective as far as language is concerned.

If they want to build a nation then they should do it together with the Russians living there (and its very feasible to build a strong, independent country on such as basis); there is no other way as the Russian population is too large and the Russian culture is too strong and prevelant to be assimilated. It's the same as if you had a huge American population (20-30% of the total) living in Northern Columbia, that the Columbians wanted to assimilate, get rid of the English language, Hollywood movies, etc... Won't happen.

What it will do instead is simply increase tensions and problems, the Russians will feel oppressed and turn to Russia for support and since Russia is next door there is simply no scenario under which nationalist Ukrainians will win.

[Ataman]

If they want to build a nation then they should do it together with the Russians living there (and its very feasible to build a strong, independent country on such as basis); there is no other way as the Russian population is too large and the Russian culture is too strong and prevelant to be assimilated. It's the same as if you had a huge American population living in Northern Columbia, that the Columbians wanted to assimilate, get rid of the English language, Hollywood movies, etc... Won't happen.

Of course, it won't be accomplished within a generation or two, but the trend of Ukrainization continues. More and more people speak Ukrainian, less people speak Russian. Ukrainian citizenship is being promoted by banning double citizenship (so in fact Rus/Ukr). Add to this a possible membership in EU and/or NATO within the next years or decades which would definitely accelerate this process...
I consider this a very dangerous development.

[Flamming_Python]

Of course, it won't be accomplished within a generation or two, but the trend of Ukrainization continues. More and more people speak Ukrainian, less people speak Russian. Ukrainian citizenship is being promoted by banning double citizenship (so in fact Rus/Ukr). Add to this a possible membership in EU and/or NATO within the next years or decades which would definitely accelerate this process...
I consider this a very dangerous development.

Indeed but they will accomplish nothing. Look at Latvia, Estonia; all they have succeeded in is dividing their own population and have made no headway in any sort of integration/assimilation whatsoever; and people are still talking Russian there - I been to Riga 2 years ago - the whole city was just speaking Russian I was amazed; I barely heard Latvian at all - the actual formal laws and restrictions there seem to be completely out of touch with any sort of reality.

If the Ukrainians want to promote their language, I consider that an admirable goal and in principle I consider it important for Russians living in any ex-Soviet republic to know the language of that republic as a sign of respect to the titular ethnicity. But trying to restrict them in the language they use everyday, at work, etc.. (Russian), is nonsense. The Ukrainian government should focus more on making Ukrainian an attractive language to get to know, for cultural, literary, whatever reasons, and the Ukrainian people themselves, for those who care, should themselves focus on using their language more if they want to develop it. Instead of trying to make it an attractive language though; they are just trying to restrict and chase out Russian instead though - and of course they will fail in this and just create BS problems in their own society. Sucks to be them, basically. Russian ain't going anywhere and if the rising economic influence of Russia is any indicator, it's importance will only grow in neighboring countries. This particular issue will probably be resolved by considerable Russian political pressure after a certain period of time; so it's probably not even worth it for the Ukraine to go there in the first place.

AFAIK the only countries that have actually gotten rid of Russian successfully (although not necessarily intentionally), are just some poor Central Asian countries, where Russians that were living there, working as specialists, etc.. simply left. So they solved that problem, and were left with much more serious ones in exchange.

[Grax]

I don't think they actually care about it. It's probably more connected to the long-term project of "nation-building" which seems to be quite effective as far as language is concerned.

In fact Ukraine is fragmanted in two pieces, the west and east. There is no nation-building with practically two different "nations".

[Miecznik]

In fact Ukraine is fragmanted in two pieces, the west and east. There is no nation-building with practically two different "nations".

Thats preety much issue in most of european countries with significant population.
Italy is divided south/north, Spain is divided spain/catalonia, Germany western/eastern with addition of bavaria. UK is divided sctoland/england with addition of northern ireland with ETA organization. Even poland, altrough we got most unitary country out of major ones in europe, got divisions as shown on map.
http://bigthink.com/ideas/21401

[IconOfEvi]

Thats preety much issue in most of european countries with significant population.
Italy is divided south/north, Spain is divided spain/catalonia, Germany western/eastern with addition of bavaria. UK is divided sctoland/england with addition of northern ireland with ETA organization. Even poland, altrough we got most unitary country out of major ones in europe, got divisions as shown on map.
http://bigthink.com/ideas/21401

I love that goddamn map overlay for some reason

Also, Spain is divided FAR more than just Catalonia. Hell, England (not the whole UK, mind you) has quite differences between its north and south.

[Ataman]

Thats preety much issue in most of european countries with significant population.
Italy is divided south/north, Spain is divided spain/catalonia, Germany western/eastern with addition of bavaria. UK is divided sctoland/england with addition of northern ireland with ETA organization. Even poland, altrough we got most unitary country out of major ones in europe, got divisions as shown on map.
http://bigthink.com/ideas/21401

I live in Germany and I can definitely say that it's not nearly as divided as Ukraine. Quite different situation.

[sepheronx]

I wouldn't be too worried anyway. Ukrainian and Russian (and BeloRussian) are common slavic languages that are decendent from an ancient slavic language about 1,500 years ago. Besides some adjustments from Polish rule and Russian Russian rule, it created some funny sounding differences. But Russian's should not have much trouble to understand them. The real issue is the nationalization and what can happen to the nation if they continue on this path. It could possibly mean a split (again) to Ukraine.

But I am on Pythons side for this one: why isn't the EU going at Ukrain's politicians over this? Shouldn't there be equal rights to even language? Shouldn't the Russian speakers be allowed to speak Russian? Shouldn't they be protected as well?