Chinese take a Much worse "sharp turn"

[[RNZE]Sapper]

China still has more options than the US.......the biggest issue on the mind of the Chinese mafia called government is maintaining the promise of growth/employment in exchange for them being allowed to rob and financially rape the country.

Just a quick note. When some people read the bold part, they get an mental image of a cabal of guys, a la Saddam family ..etc But the reality of the matter is, this Mafia runs into the millions and millions. It's not just the top tier of the government raping the country, it's everyone including the lowest entry level positions. Not only that, their extended family and relations runs into the hundreds of millions. It's not the matter of hanging a few strange fruits from your nearest lamp post and all will be right with China. If you punish everyone that's raped China financially, you're going to need a genocide. Which, incidentally is what China does whenever there is a change in dynasty.

So keep that in mind.

[Flagg]

No, you've misunderstood me. Inssurection would be unlikely, unrest not. Terms are pedantic but important.

Nah, I'd agree......

COULD insurrection occur if China's leadership fails miserably?

Of course.

Is it likely insurrection will occur....I'd say no.

I'd put it in the highly unlikely....but possible category.

Unrest....absolutely....especially since it's already happening in isolated instances.

[Flagg]

Just a quick note. When some people read the bold part, they get an mental image of a cabal of guys, a la Saddam family ..etc But the reality of the matter is, this Mafia runs into the millions and millions. It's not just the top tier of the government raping the country, it's everyone including the lowest entry level positions. Not only that, their extended family and relations runs into the hundreds of millions. It's not the matter of hanging a few strange fruits from your nearest lamp post and all will be right with China. If you punish everyone that's raped China financially, you're going to need a genocide. Which, incidentally is what China does whenever there is a change in dynasty.

So keep that in mind.

In a way what's happening in China isn't TOO different from Iraq late 70's.

Instead of the Communist Party and the various family ties around the "rock stars" and their families/descendants of the Revolution, you have the Ba'ath Party and the various family ties around the "rock stars" and their families trusted in Saddam's Inner Circle.

There'd be some similarities there......albeit Iraq had what, maybe 13 million people at the time and China has 1.3 billion or so?

While I think there's some considerable differences, they do have some striking similarities......but they certainly differ enormously in scale.

I also wonder about differences at the very local to regional level....I suspect a big chunk of the corruption and hidden problems(particularly banking/RE loans related) are done at the local Chinese Communist Party local warlord level.

And THAT's where a lot of this complete unknown resides in China.....how do things work at the local level times 1.3 billion....it's a pretty nebulous situation.

China could fair this storm far better or far worse than we think.....that's a pretty big range.....we probably have better odds of predicting the weather for two weeks from next Thurday than we do what happens with China over the next 5-10 years with any degree of accuracy.

[[RNZE]Sapper]

Instead of the Communist Party and the various family ties around the "rock stars" and their families/descendants of the Revolution, you have the Ba'ath Party and the various family ties around the "rock stars" and their families trusted in Saddam's Inner Circle.

China's problem is not the rock stars. China's problem is the system. By keep mentioning rock stars it distracts from the actual problem. What I mean is if you get rid of the rock stars, but leave the music industry as is, you're just gonna get a new breed of rock stars. It's the system, i.e. "the way things are done", that's corrupting. Not any member of the system. The Chinese like that system, it's how they've always done things. That Chinese dissent was right. What China need is two hundred years of colonization. And I point to, Korea, Japan and Singapore as the example.

[Flagg]

China's problem is not the rock stars. China's problem is the system. By keep mentioning rock stars it distracts from the actual problem. What I mean is if you get rid of the rock stars, but leave the music industry as is, you're just gonna get a new breed of rock stars. It's the system, i.e. "the way things are done", that's corrupting. Not any member of the system. The Chinese like that system, it's how they've always done things. That Chinese dissent was right. What China need is two hundred years of colonization. And I point to, Korea, Japan and Singapore as the example.

I would agree that in China, as well as other nations too, commerce requires corruption, corruption requires commerce in the local culture.

They are deeply intertwined in society and commerce.

And let's not forget the less pervasive but still seriously debilitating corruption in politics in the US and other western nations as well.

Few countries seem to escape the perpetual loop of political machines, political patronage, political bosses and the corruption that comes with it or drives it.

It seems to be a bit chicken/egg.

What came first corruption or money?

[IconOfEvi]

What came first corruption or money?

Want

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[archibald harry tuttle]

China still has more options than the US.......the biggest issue on the mind of the Chinese mafia called government is maintaining the promise of growth/employment in exchange for them being allowed to rob and financially rape the country.

China has more options and FAR faster speed of implementation......but they will not be immune from big problems.

What options? Africa has no buying power, EU has dimished buying power, asians are not seeing china with friendly eyes lately and in latin america they are buyers not sellers.

[archibald harry tuttle]

Just a quick note. When some people read the bold part, they get an mental image of a cabal of guys, a la Saddam family ..etc But the reality of the matter is, this Mafia runs into the millions and millions. It's not just the top tier of the government raping the country, it's everyone including the lowest entry level positions. Not only that, their extended family and relations runs into the hundreds of millions. It's not the matter of hanging a few strange fruits from your nearest lamp post and all will be right with China. If you punish everyone that's raped China financially, you're going to need a genocide. Which, incidentally is what China does whenever there is a change in dynasty.

So keep that in mind.

A couple of years ago in a PBS documentary it was said the there are 37 citizens for every party member. If care to check chinese history you will see genocide is a part of their political history.

[That One Guy]

The difference is that in the US politicians are voted into power, in China the elite decide who drives the bus.

In China, failure to achieve sufficient economic growth could mean insurrection.

It has been shown that in 9 out of 10 congressional elections, the candidate with the most campaign money wins. In other words, the corporations ultimately pick the politicians. Slight difference in details, but much the same in essence.

Nevertheless, I ultimately blame the people for their endless gullibility and susceptibility to the media manipulation that corporate money buys—garbage in, garbage out.

[Chiptox]

It has been shown that in 9 out of 10 congressional elections, the candidate with the most campaign money wins. In other words, the corporations ultimately pick the politicians. Slight difference in details, but much the same in essence.

Correlation =/= Causation

Could it be that "corporations" put their money where it makes the greatest difference, i.e. the candidates who stand the best chance at winning.


BTW, that lobby money ain't just from Wall Street. Ever heard of a Union? How about the Sierra Club? Or the NRA?
Look it up for yourself.

http://www.opensecrets.org/

[twinblade]

It has been shown that in 9 out of 10 congressional elections, the candidate with the most campaign money wins. In other words, the corporations ultimately pick the politicians. Slight difference in details, but much the same in essence.

Nevertheless, I ultimately blame the people for their endless gullibility and susceptibility to the media manipulation that corporate money buys—garbage in, garbage out.

Its like saying that the winning horse in the derby had the maximum money being bet on it, hence money makes horses win. Businessmen and corporations will always put their money on a winning horse.

[archibald harry tuttle]

Your logic is no logic at all, you have equated betting with voting. Its like saying all 4 legged creatures are horses because horses have 4 legs. You forgot to have a strong coffee before typing a reply.