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Thread: Russian Economy/Finance : News and Discussion

  1. #76
    Making Canadians look bad sepheronx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy_UA View Post
    Lets not focus on the local car industry because now all car makers are more or less global. I found a good post on this:

    In 1970 there were 27 globally active car makers, In 2011 there was 15. (In 2015 forecast is 20 - because of Chinese OEMs' growth)
    Furthermore they form cooperations:
    BMW -> Chrysler, Daimler, GM, PSA, Renault
    Daimler -> BMW, Renault, Mitsubishi, Hyundai, GM, KamAZ
    Volkswagen -> FAW, SAIC
    Fiat -> Tata, PSA, GM, FOrd
    etc.
    Russian makers are adapting to this reality and forms alliances - Lada-Renault, Fiat-Sollers, Kamaz-Daimler, Gaz-Chrysler. Renault should own 51% of Lada by now IIRC. Also now a big investments are going to be made for russian parts makers to upgrade to the world level. First to try to populate regional market with russian made parts. This is where they can win some marketshare and try to develop new innovative parts. And of course to create new factories inviting investors, giving them favourable bussiness conditions etc.
    Yes, currently Canada is to open Magna autopart manufacturing facility in St.Petersburg. This can be really good as this will make extra parts cheaper, plus it will give a lot for Russian auto industry and profits (export).

    Now the field of Semiconductors is becoming interesting in Russia. Apparently a new plant is being built in Tatarstan region for building components for computers, computers themselves and a research and development facility. Any news regarding microprocessor development in Russia?

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by sepheronx View Post
    Any news regarding microprocessor development in Russia?
    The best they have developed in SPARC and x86 architecture is

    SPARC MCST R1000 ------> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MCST-4R
    x_86 Elbrus-2C+ ------> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbrus-2C%2B

    They seem to be pretty good for both commercial and military application especially if you can make it scalable using parallel cluster or some other technology

  3. #78
    Senior Member Sashko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sepheronx View Post
    Sales in Ukraine and Belarus apparently are up for Lada automobiles. I heard Granta wasn't so bad either.

    But tell me about Yo mobile and saving us a ton of tears, you have experience with it? If not, and basing it off of just experience with Lada automobiles or what someone else said, then there will be a reason why Russia will not be able to progress because no one will trust their products because of previous history.

    Kinda like Hyundai back then with the Pony. They are not what they used to be.

    Well all the "progress" that geniuses at Togliatti managed to come up with in the last 15 years was adding a cheap digital HUD in the middle of the dashboard to the 20 year old design. Hyundai in the same time frame came up with an awesome sports coupe, a dirt cheap luxury boat that rivals cars x2 its price in features, and a cheaper alternative to the family workhorse Camry. Joint efforts between Russian and foreign companies typically result in overpriced monstrosities as well (Lada Kalina - costs like a Jetta, drives like a tractor).

    Buying a hybrid from an unknown and inexperienced small time brand in a place where you will have problems getting parts = tears. This YoYo will have to compete with the likes of Toyota, Nissan, Ford and even Mercedes (smart), so unless they sell them for under 7-8k it will fail ( maybe we'll have the Yo tower as a legacy, like the Lada building in Toronto). If anything, I'd be wishing to get Alfa Romeos, Euro Fords and Renaults into Canada with respective dealer support.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herman the II View Post
    You mean this: http://www.amo-zil.ru/catalog/ ?

    Unfortunately their english homepage is somewhat broken.
    Yes those are the ones; here are some better pics:

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    A mix of perspective and not so perspective models I'd say, including some cute military trucks too

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    They used to make high-quality limousines in the USSR days: http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/14792/
    Now, ZIL have been tasked with coming up with a new limousine for the Russian president. Here are a couple screens from a design studio involved in the project:

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    AFAIK they restarted production of their fire-engines not long ago; they are mainly sold to the military. We had a couple out where I served - it's an old design (although it looks slightly modernised from these photos) but still good stuff and is very rugged; they can be found in far northern bases with very cold weather, on-board the Admiral Kuznetsov with its heavily saline conditions, etc...

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    Last edited by Flamming_Python; 05-29-2012 at 03:10 PM.

  5. #80
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    Oil discount for China

    Russian state-controlled oil giant Rosneft has agreed to a discount of $1.5 per barrel on crude oil supplies to China National Petroleum Cooperation.


    The move resolves a pricing dispute between the two companies over a $22 billion deal to supply crude oil to China for 20 years via the East Siberia-Pacific Ocean Pipeline (ESPO).


    China disagreed with the price it had to pay to transport oil through the pipeline and underpaid to push for a discount.


    The discount, agreed on at an extraordinary general meeting on April 10, was made on condition that China pay its debt to the Russian firm of $134 million, Rosneft said in a statement on Monday.


    Last fall, the sides reached an agreement on changing the terms of oil supplies to China. Under the deal, China agreed to repay its debt of $134 million while the Russian side agreed to change the price formula and negotiate a price discount.


    “On condition that the debt be repaid, the price of oil supplied under the agreement will be reduced by a discount of $1.5 per barrel from November 1, 2011, to the period of duration of the contract on the purchase/sale of crude oil,” Rosneft said in the statement.


    The controversial agreement was signed in 2009, when China Development Bank agreed to extend loans worth $15 billion and $10 billion to Rosneft and Transneft, in exchange for their commitment to supply 15 million tons of crude oil to China annually via the ESPO.


    The supply volumes remain the same under the new price terms.

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    Seems now that the only problem is both Russia and China cannot agree on the gas price till date ......that deal is worth $ 1 trillion for 30 years time line !

  7. #82
    Making Canadians look bad sepheronx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustinJ View Post
    Seems now that the only problem is both Russia and China cannot agree on the gas price till date ......that deal is worth $ 1 trillion for 30 years time line !
    China will eventually give into the price. They will need the gas for their development, and Russia just has such an over abundance of it. China is just trying to barter harder to get a better price in the end, which you cannot blame them.

    @Shashko

    You are correct in most terms, but I heard the Granta is indeed a very good model (in comparrison to other Ladas, which may not be hard to do, don't know). And it seems to be selling quite well, and Avtovaz, even if some believe that their success is due to government help in taxations, it still is making profits. But I will agree, the cheap huds to older models wont do, and you are correct about Hyundai's performance, but that is mainly due to the sheer fact of survival for the company, while Avtovaz is getting too much support from the government (it is damned if you do and damned if you don't situation).

    I have high hopes for the Yo Car. If they can build a decent smart vehicle for a good price, and be able to contract off the spare parts to other auto parts manufacters (like Magna as example), then we can have a very solid vehicle. But time will tell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AustinJ View Post
    The best they have developed in SPARC and x86 architecture is

    SPARC MCST R1000 ------> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MCST-4R
    x_86 Elbrus-2C+ ------> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbrus-2C%2B

    They seem to be pretty good for both commercial and military application especially if you can make it scalable using parallel cluster or some other technology
    Those seem very good, especially the MCST R1000 microprocessor. Reading through, it does seem to be quite scalable and adding it into clusters would be very good. I wonder if there is any development in the ARM microprocessors?

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    China bargains hard , they have signed contracts with other players like Turkmenistan etc , plus they have huge deposit of Shale Gas so they are bargaining very hard.

    Unfortunately for Russia they do not have huge oil deposit but huge gas reserves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AustinJ View Post
    China bargains hard , they have signed contracts with other players like Turkmenistan etc , plus they have huge deposit of Shale Gas so they are bargaining very hard.

    Unfortunately for Russia they do not have huge oil deposit but huge gas reserves.
    They have quite large oil deposits, plus they work in oversees too (venezuela and Cuba as example). That being said, yes they do have a large natural gas reserve (much like us in Canada), making it somewhat cheaper and easier for energy and allowing others to heat their homes

    Gas is always gonna be needed. These alternative energy is not even coming close to our needs.

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    Senior Member Andy_UA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sepheronx View Post
    They have quite large oil deposits, plus they work in oversees too (venezuela and Cuba as example). That being said, yes they do have a large natural gas reserve (much like us in Canada), making it somewhat cheaper and easier for energy and allowing others to heat their homes

    Gas is always gonna be needed. These alternative energy is not even coming close to our needs.
    You didn't understand him. He said China has other sources for oil&gas in addition to its own production. So Russia is in unfavourable negociating position, which is true. Every paper and analyst says so.

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    Making Canadians look bad sepheronx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy_UA View Post
    You didn't understand him. He said China has other sources for oil&gas in addition to its own production. So Russia is in unfavourable negociating position, which is true. Every paper and analyst says so.
    Oh, ok. Yes I did read it wrong then.

    But what other sources of Oil and Gas does China have? Africa? Turkmenistan? I don't know if they are exactly replacements at this time being. But it is true, China does have better chips on the table. But regardless, if even Russia reduces the price a bit more, they still will be making a huge profit.

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    Senior Member Andy_UA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sepheronx View Post
    Oh, ok. Yes I did read it wrong then.

    But what other sources of Oil and Gas does China have? Africa? Turkmenistan? I don't know if they are exactly replacements at this time being. But it is true, China does have better chips on the table. But regardless, if even Russia reduces the price a bit more, they still will be making a huge profit.
    I don't have exact table right now, but Iran is main supplier and sells oil to China on a very cheap price, you know why.

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    China is using these other countries and its shale resource to bargain for rock bottom price from Russia.

    But Russia has insisted that it will not compromise on its gas price in light of other options available to china.

    Russia is insisting on prices based on what it sells to West but China is asking for $50 - 100 per 1000 cubic meters

  15. #90
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    There are logistics problems for China right now. Shale Gas can't be extracted right now too. Unfortunately, I already don't have time to find it in my data and will be away for a long time, but in brief - the situation is very subtle even for China. In every case Russia can't sell a lot of gas there.

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