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Thread: New insight into the Warsaw Ghetto uprising

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    Senior Member GB_FXST's Avatar
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    Default New insight into the Warsaw Ghetto uprising

    http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/new-i...etto-uprising/

    On Sunday April 14, Moshe Arens, former Israeli Defense Minister, Foreign Minister and Ambassador to the USA, spoke at Netanya -AACI on his recently published book, “Flags over the Warsaw Ghetto.” This is a unique and novel work that rights a historic wrong in Jewish history. The date was appropriate since the uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto started on April 19, 1943, the first day of Passover 69 years ago, and the date of Yom Hashoah, Holocaust Heroes and Martyrs Remembrance Day in Israel. Until now the true history of what happened during that epic battle has been obscured, by lack of information and biased reportage. Finally due to Moshe Aren’s efforts, the true story can be told. This is my attempt to summarize his presentation.

    ... snip ...

    The basic story of the uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto is known from several survivors of the ZOB. This is the story that is to be found in the books “The Wall” by John Hershey and “Mila 18″ by Leon Uris and in several movies and documentaries. This is not surprising, since Israel was governed by Labor socialist governments in its early years, and there was an ideological preferance for the story as told by the left-wing fighters. But, what of the ZZW? None of these fighters survived, they literally fought to the death! There was no one left to tell their story.


    Compared to the ZOB, who had no military training, the Betar youths had extensive excercise and weapons training. At high cost they managed to acquire two submachine guns that were smuggled into the Ghetto through tunnels. The military tactics of the two Jewish groups was totally different, whereas the ZOB ambushed the German troops as they entered the Ghetto to liquidate it on Jan 19, 1943, the ZZW fought a direct confrontation with the German forces in Muranowski Square, the largest open space in the Ghetto. They also raised two flags over the Ghetto, that of the Jewish star of David, that became the flag of the State of Israel, and the flag of Poland. Sources of both the daily German military reports, including those of Gen Jurgend Stroop who commanded the German troops, and from other observers and reporters of the scene, indicate that the major fighting that occured in the Ghetto actually took place in Muranowski Square. This has never before been described in detail. The Germans were mortified that they could not take the Ghetto, and fighting continued for nearly a month, until finally the Germans burnt the Ghetto to the ground.


    This book rights a historic wrong. The uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto by Jewish fighting units was the first major organized resistance to German occupation throughout Europe. It deserves to go down in history as a foundational event of the State of Israel. All of those who fought and sacrificed themselves for the cause of good versus evil deserve to be appropriately commemmorated.

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    Senior Member EITAN88's Avatar
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    Very interesting indeed.

    It is sad that such heroic stories get the exposure they deserve only 35 years after the 'Mahapach', not to mention almost 70 years after the events themselves took place.

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    Senior Member GB_FXST's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EITAN88 View Post
    Very interesting indeed.

    It is sad that such heroic stories get the exposure they deserve only 35 years after the 'Mahapach', not to mention almost 70 years after the events themselves took place.
    Agree. Unfortunately political myopia has no boundaries.

    I just bought the kindle book, so I hope to learn some new facts.

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    Moderator James's Avatar
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    The uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto by Jewish fighting units was the first major organized resistance to German occupation throughout Europe.
    I can think of a number of countries and other groups that resisted the Germans prior to 1943.

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    Senior Member GB_FXST's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    I can think of a number of countries and other groups that resisted the Germans prior to 1943.
    Yeah; I though that statement may raise some questions. I suspect it is just the blogger's hyperbole and not part of Aren's thesis.

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    Moderator James's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GB_FXST View Post
    Yeah; I though that statement may raise some questions. I suspect it is just the blogger's hyperbole and not part of Aren's thesis.
    Either way, it's a flat out lie. I posted my opinions on the original link.

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    Senior Member G-AWZT's Avatar
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    Who are the ZZW?




    double post my bad.
    Last edited by G-AWZT; 05-31-2012 at 11:38 PM. Reason: double

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    Senior Member G-AWZT's Avatar
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    Who were the ZZW?

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    Member w0nder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-AWZT View Post
    Who were the ZZW?
    Zydowski Zwiazek Wojskowy, ZZW, a military organization active in the. Warsaw Ghetto, numbering 250.

    Quote Originally Posted by G-AWZT View Post
    Who were the ZZB?
    Za Zelazna Brama (Behind the Iron Gate)



    resistance groups in warsaw

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    Senior Member Kaplanr's Avatar
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    From Wikip. the Żydowski Związek Wojskowy (ŻZW, Polish for Jewish Military Union) was an underground resistance organization operating during World War II in the area of the Warsaw Ghetto which fought during the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. It was formed primarily of former officers of the Polish Army in late 1939, soon after the start of the German occupation of Poland.

    What later on separated them ideologically from the ZOB were the members from the right-wing Zionist movements like Beitar which had been headed in Poland once upon a time by M. Begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by G-AWZT View Post
    Who were the ZZW?

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    Senior Member Camera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    I can think of a number of countries and other groups that resisted the Germans prior to 1943.
    Quote Originally Posted by GB_FXST View Post
    Yeah; I though that statement may raise some questions. I suspect it is just the blogger's hyperbole and not part of Aren's thesis.
    The Warsaw Ghetto uprising was not the first act of resistance but the first armed revolt in occupied Europe. The first urban/civil armed revolt for sure.
    Last edited by Camera; 06-03-2012 at 03:34 AM.

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    Member Bauer_CTU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camera View Post
    The Warsaw Ghetto uprising was not the first act of resistance but the first armed revolt in occupied Europe.

    Hello, Camera,

    By 'resistance', do you mean resistance to impending invasion in acts of cross-border aggression? Or resistance in terms of popular uprising and inclusive of guerilla acts?

    If the latter, the Greek Communists were earlier in terms of guerilla resistance (and I'm not particularly wont to cite wiki, but it suffices here) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Resistance. Bear in mind it was a major populist revolt concurrent with a guerilla offensive. Probably only difference was that EAM-ELAS wee not confined to an urban setting as in the Warsaw Ghetto. Interestingly, at a later stage, Jurgen Stroop was brought to Greece to defeat the various guerilla movements (if I recall correctly).

    But, I am unsure if the above would fit in with a more "mob" (I do not mean this disparingly) oriented resistance per se; as opposed to more surgical acts of sabotage as displayed in France or Holland.

    Note: I am no way attempting to diminish the bravery of the resisters within the Ghetto, especially when the USSR deigned it beneficial to not assist in the Uprising.
    Last edited by Bauer_CTU; 06-03-2012 at 03:45 AM. Reason: Got camera and corrupt mixed up...

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    Senior Member Camera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bauer_CTU View Post
    Hello, Camera,

    By 'resistance', do you mean resistance to impending invasion in acts of cross-border aggression? Or resistance in terms of popular uprising and inclusive of guerilla acts?

    If the latter, the Greek Communists were earlier in terms of guerilla resistance (and I'm not particularly wont to cite wiki, but it suffices here) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Resistance. Bear in mind it was a major populist revolt concurrent with a guerilla offensive. Probably only difference was that EAM-ELAS wee not confined to an urban setting as in the Warsaw Ghetto. Interestingly, at a later stage, Jurgen Stroop was brought to Greece to defeat the various guerilla movements (if I recall correctly).

    But, I am unsure if the above would fit in with a more "mob" (I do not mean this disparingly) oriented resistance per se; as opposed to more surgical acts of sabotage as displayed in France or Holland.

    Note: I am no way attempting to diminish the bravery of the resisters within the Ghetto, especially when the USSR deigned it beneficial to not assist in the Uprising.
    I edited the my post for better clarity.

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    Member Bauer_CTU's Avatar
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    Yep, it was when I was typing mine.

    Thanks for the clarification - oh, and by no means did I take umbrage with your post

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    Senior Member Camera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bauer_CTU View Post
    Yep, it was when I was typing mine.

    Thanks for the clarification - oh, and by no means did I take umbrage with your post
    I did not take it as umbrage.
    What's interesting is to bring the best precision when it comes to the discussion about historical events.

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