Once Tolerated, Alcohol Now Creates Rift In Tunisia
http://www.npr.org/2012/06/06/154349...ift-in-tunisia
Interesting fact:
I really hope the seculars manage to overcome the political power of the Islamists (including the "moderates"). Their wine production goes back to the time of ancient Carthage...Since Tunisia's revolution, the company that brews Celtia has reported sales have actually increased.
And that company is a state-run enterprise. That means that technically the Islamist party now dominating the government is in the brewing business.
When my parents were young, they used to make holidays in Tunisia and are still very fond of the country. I had hoped to visit the place myself one time, but not if there are Islamists in charge. Afaik tourism was always major part of the Tunisian income, but with a policy like this it is about to die out. There are tough times for Tunisia ahead
There is a bit of a worry that Turkey is headed this way as well, although slowly and without violence.
More and more restaurants have removed alcohol from the menu and more and more headscarved women are adorning advertisements etc. I certainly hope the more modern Turks manage to protect what has been achieved in the last century.
I don't understand what you guys are fearing so much.
Radical islamists moving to EuropeOriginally Posted by lotsoffreetime
I don't understand. How is it related to Muslim countries going less and less secular? If anything the radicals would want to stay in, rather than out. Turkey's economy is going well while Europe's isn't. There's just no reason to migrate. Or you guys just hate seeing people living the way they wanted to?
Just another proof that the "Arab Spring" media illusion of Facebook Hipsters rising against Dictatorship was just propaganda.
In reality this was a islamic takeover, albeit less bloody than in all other countries.
I know it's an Islamist takeover. I'm a Muslim, form a Muslim country myself. What boggles me is how does turning more Islamic has to carry such a negative connotation here? What would be so bad about closing a brewery? Don't assume that the people who protested on the square are secularists. They are regular Muslims, and among the things that brought the downfall of many Middle Eastern leaders during Arab Spring are how far they were from Islamic morality. The fact that those leaders may drank alcohol, practice corruption, commit adultery or just plain evil contributed to their downfall. The people did not want to see a leader of a Muslim country so far removed from Islamic norms. So how does changing the country the way the always wanted it to be, to be observed by rules in which they believed in is something to be worried about? Isn't that what the Arab Spring is all about?
I am a non-Muslim but I had the fortune (or misfortune) of being born in a Muslim majority area in India ie Kashmir where an Islamist led insurgency has brewed for years. I have seen how a society which turns more Islamic slowly suffocates the minorities, then itself and finally affecting the whole world in the form of Islamist extremism. There are many examples for anyone to see this fact.I know it's an Islamist takeover. I'm a Muslim, form a Muslim country myself.
It is a fact that a country which turns more Islamic will not move forward but go in a reverse direction than what other secular countries try to go in (except when they have oil monies). Name one country which has actually progressed after turning more Islamic (you could probably say Malaysia but in the long run it wont work). I give you an example. Pakistan and Bangladesh were one country at one time, but Pakistan was the rich part and Bangladesh was the piss poor part. They got seperated and both were "Islamic" republics. The Islamists got stronger in Pakistan and weaker in Bangladesh. Pakistan is what it is today due to these Islamist policies and Bangladesh where the High Court upheld the secular nature of the Constitution is doing much better as it seperates religion from Government.What boggles me is how does turning more Islamic has to carry such a negative connotation here?
Its about the choice. Why do hardline Muslims want to impose their will on everybody ? There are 50 Islamic nations in the world. What exactly are they scared of ?What would be so bad about closing a brewery?
Islamic morality ? What exactly is that ? Do as the Prophet did ?Don't assume that the people who protested on the square are secularists. They are regular Muslims, and among the things that brought the downfall of many Middle Eastern leaders during Arab Spring are how far they were from Islamic morality.
Aren't you mixing up something there? It's the islamists who deny other minded people the right to live the way they want to. It shows in the mentality that you assume a whole country thinks alike and wants secularism/brewery/whatever gone. It's also typical of Islamists to try and force everyone else to conform or else - and if they don't get their way they start poisoning schoolgirls and do other bat**** crazy things.
That's human nature - corupption through power is well known - why do you assume religious leaders are different?downfall of many Middle Eastern leaders during Arab Spring are how far they were from Islamic morality. The fact that those leaders may drank alcohol, practice corruption, commit adultery or just plain evil contributed to their downfall.
Aduletery also sounds better to me than keeping women like cattle in harems, wrapped head to toe, and beat and rape them when they don't want to play along with these sick practices.
The more Islamist they become, the more violence they'll export.
fixed for typo.*
Last edited by Roebuck; 06-07-2012 at 07:27 AM.
And that, is where Russia and China are spot-on. Just as is currently the case in Syria with Assad, it's better for the West and BRIC to have a tyrannical demi-puppet to keep the population away from radicalism, that allow it to take hold with unknown and probably damaging results.
We're soft in Europe and N. America, so we spring to the moral concerns, but we really ought to devote more time to thinking about a) what's best for global/regional stability, and b) what best for muggins.
It's not just about radical muslims in Europe, but about those progressive Muslim countries having reforms etc. which were made to bring them into the 1st world be cut back and return them to the 3rd world.
I think the same of countries with Christian majorities BTW... any sort of literal or fundamental interpretation of religious scripture becoming the basis for society is a step backwards.
Ayman al-Zawahiri, the current nr. 1 of AQ was born in Egypt and opposed the "tyranical demi-puppet" in his country.
Bin Laden (as well as most of the 9/11-attackers), former nr. 1. of AQ was born in KSA and opposed the "tyranical demi-puppet" in his country.
Doesn't look, like your example really works.
If the West, claiming to be for democracy and freedom, denies democracy and freedom for the peoples in the muslim world, we shouldn't be suprised, that they look for alternatives.
The people you described don't stand for freedom and democracy and we should let them take over any country.
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