Once Tolerated, Alcohol Now Creates Rift In Tunisia

[KoTeMoRe]

Read the article, it wasn't just leaders drinking alcohol. Many people still drink it. Secularists want to be able to drink it without Salafist harassment. Under the Islamist government the sale of the government-owned brewery increased. Tunesia's wine tradition is older than Islam, it would be a shame to die out. Nobody is forcing the Salafists to drink a beer, so the Salafists shouldn't tell the others what to do. And the "moderate Islamists" shouldn't be able to force probition on a very substantial secular minority either.

Tunesia is one of the most developed Arab states in many ways. This is why a negative political development there is so crucial.



Well the secularists in Tunesia are Sunni Muslims like the rest of the country, other groups are negligible. If they want a liquor store Salafists shouldn't be able to storm their town because they roll that way (not saying you said they should be able to, just pointing out who is pushing for progressive change in Tunesia.



No doubt Tunesia suffered from this as well. I just hope it's not either-or: secular dictatorship or democratically elected bigots.

Also I would like to point out that the "moderate" Islamists in Tunesia got 37,04% of the votes. None of the secular parties got even 10% because they are extremely fractured, but they are still plentiful (from Left to Right). This isn't Egypt.

It is actually even worse. Because all the parties were in an immediate post revolutionary period, in which the Islamist had no part (or little). When Ben Ali got ousted by the Military (and had a mockery of a trial in 6 hours) one could have understood that the power was to remain secular. If those guys could in roughly 5 months organize and win the November Elections well that shows me remaining parties are not fractured, they are powerless.

On a side note...only 50 to 55% of the voters went to the ballot boxes.

[OrangeWolf]

The situation in Tunesia is by no means good, but worse than Egypt? Worse would be 70% of the votes for the Islamists. Worse would be a lot more Salafist activists. Your point is valid, the remaining parties seem (or are) powerless. But do you expect Revolutionary Socialists, secular Liberals and big-business advocates to forge a united front? They will all suffer under a very religious society, but they are just too far apart. The Islamists seem to have less inner comptetition.

Anyway, by all means Tunesia is politically speaking more pluralistic than Egypt and as far as I know it has much less secterian and tribal problems.

[shermbodius]

Any religion or quasi religious government that tries to limit or with hold liberties from their people are creating a crime.

[Laworkerbee]

ayman al-zawahiri, the current nr. 1 of aq was born in egypt and opposed the "tyranical demi-puppet" in his country.

Bin laden (as well as most of the 9/11-attackers), former nr. 1. Of aq was born in ksa and opposed the "tyranical demi-puppet" in his country.

Doesn't look, like your example really works.

If the west, claiming to be for democracy and freedom, denies democracy and freedom for the peoples in the muslim world, we shouldn't be suprised, that they look for alternatives.

x2 .............

Let the people there figure it out for themselves. Death to Western Universalism.

[KoTeMoRe]

The situation in Tunesia is by no means good, but worse than Egypt? Worse would be 70% of the votes for the Islamists. Worse would be a lot more Salafist activists. Your point is valid, the remaining parties seem (or are) powerless. But do you expect Revolutionary Socialists, secular Liberals and big-business advocates to forge a united front? They will all suffer under a very religious society, but they are just too far apart. The Islamists seem to have less inner comptetition.

Anyway, by all means Tunesia is politically speaking more pluralistic than Egypt and as far as I know it has much less secterian and tribal problems.

A country with a whole secular history succumbing so fast to a makeshift Islamic movement? That's no Hallal. When you know that the poorest and illiterates did not went to vote I fear for Tunisia.

[OrangeWolf]

A country with a whole secular history succumbing so fast to a makeshift Islamic movement? That's no Hallal. When you know that the poorest and illiterates did not went to vote I fear for Tunisia.

I also fear for Tunesia but I think its people are generally more "developed" than those in Egypt. I mean that in the sense that I think you will find more support for religious bigots in Egypt or among the Khalijis than in Tunesia.

Tunesia is extremely polarized. They say if you leave Tunis you come to a different world.

@Laworkerbee, so if a vocal/violent minority or a marginal majority want to impose god knows what on others, that's all good? The non-Islamist people in Tunesia are not the product of Western Universalism. There may be hope for the Arabs at large if Tunesia can set the right example. That sounds naive, but it's just a little bit of hope. Plus I appreciate alcohol.

[Laworkerbee]

OW,

I'm not saying it good or even wanted, but think it's best if they figure it out for themselves without the West interfering in their affairs, let them fail and learn and find their own way.

I agree, booze is good.

[OrangeWolf]

OW,

I'm not saying it good or even wanted, but think it's best if they figure it out for themselves without the West interfering in their affairs, let them fail and learn and find their own way.

I'm inclined to agree with you. I just hope otherwise.

I agree, booze is good.

No discussion

[shermbodius]

OW,

I'm not saying it good or even wanted, but think it's best if they figure it out for themselves without the West interfering in their affairs, let them fail and learn and find their own way.

I agree, booze is good.

Agreed and X2 for booze.

[Laworkerbee]

I'm inclined to agree with you. I just hope otherwise.

It's really the best thing we can do, that and drink while discussing this important matter.

[shermbodius]

This is a carry over from the Russian thread, but if they can't handle booze wait till the gays arrive!

[memoli]

Raki withdrawal?

i don't drink Raki or alcohol.. the reasons should be obvious.

and if Tunisia want's to ban this good. what does this have to do with "extremist Mozlemzzz takin over"?

[Laworkerbee]

i don't drink Raki or alcohol.. the reasons should be obvious.

You're 17? That has to be it because I know a few Turks who can drink me under the table.

[memoli]

You're 17? That has to be it because I know a few Turks who can drink me under the table.

me being 17 has nothing with it to do, i can buy raki from many shops in Turkey or alcohol drinks if i want. they don't care about (id-card) age there as long as they get money. (especially Euros)

and i know a lot of Turks that could probably drink you under the table to, i have personally seen how they behave and how dangerous they are to others. some friends of my family have crashed or been beaten and injured themself because of alcohol, so no thanks. i'd rather have it banned and have less accidents with death or something similar because of people drinking and not being responsible wich many people from where i live in Turkey are.

[Sideline]

me being 17 has nothing with it to do, i can buy raki from many shops in Turkey or alcohol drinks if i want. they don't care about (id-card) age there as long as they get money. (especially Euros)

and i know a lot of Turks that could probably drink you under the table to, i have personally seen how they behave and how dangerous they are to others. some friends of my family have crashed or been beaten and injured themself because of alcohol, so no thanks. i'd rather have it banned and have less accidents with death or something similar because of people drinking and not being responsible wich many people from where i live in Turkey are.

Memoli,
I understand what you mean, but putting a blanket ban on all people won't fix the bolded above. There are those (I'm guessing) that can drink and be responsible. I do respectfully understand and appreciate your point of view, but .....