Reply With QuoteSorry about the edited title; I try to avoid that.
From the article:
SavagesRomans feared the Scottish tribesmen for many reasons - among them their habit of fighting *****
Romans assaulted Scotland but failed to subdue savage tribesmen (shortened title)
The Romans assaulted Scotland with a larger force than they used to hold ALL of England and Wales - but still failed to subdue savage tribesmen
By Rob Waugh
PUBLISHED: 09:49 EST, 4 April 2012 | UPDATED: 12:55 EST, 4 April 2012
The Romans attacked Scotland with a far larger force than previously realised, assaulting the tribes north of Hadrian's Wall with a force bigger than the one used to hold all of England and Wales.
Researchers found 260 Roman military camps in Scotland, the largest number of any country in Europe, and 20 more than the 240 throughout found in England and Wales.
More: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...tribesmen.html
Sorry about the edited title; I try to avoid that.
From the article:
SavagesRomans feared the Scottish tribesmen for many reasons - among them their habit of fighting *****
I would suggest reading Claudius about the Romans. He had some interesting opinions of them.
I think the *****ness was not that uncommonly sight to Romans but the idea that your opponent fights without the protection of armor made them look more formidable to Romans.
Too bad there's not that much info about timing of the fortresses, even if there's been plenty of them, it doesn't mean that they were all in place at the same time. So the force present could have been smaller than the "occupying" force in south of the wall.
Thanks for the link Lt-Col.
Indeed, sir. Many thanks.Originally Posted by Hollis
I seem to remember reading that Claudius in invaded England because as an Emperor he needed military achievement.
You're quite welcome, sir.
The Scots and Celts and some others painted themselves blue and went into battle *****. Some skipped the blue paint but, they did not have antibiotics and no armour so, they took off their clothes. If they are stabbed through cloth or hides and the pieces of the clothing went through your outer skin into the wounds, they often could not find them. They got caught in your blood and guts and caused bad infections, making matters worse. And that is why they went into battle *****. They were not stupid.
I blame William Wallace.
Oh.... they wore clothes by then. We're talking "the wall," we're talking 1700-2000 years ago. And before, of course.
They made several incursions into what is now Scotland. They even had the Antonine Wall further north, for a time.
LoLThe Romans assaulted Scotland with a larger force than they used to hold ALL of England and Wales - but still failed to subdue savage tribesmen
Let me guess written in a UK newspaper ?
Proofs say otherwise
First romans didn't wanted to subdue the Picts : it was worthless to take and assimilate the Northern part of the Great Britain because, well there was nothing there interesting except mud, peat and more mud. Romans were pragmatic and any military action was thought under a cost/benefits scope.
Secondary, each time Romans had to move against the tribes on a large scale they defeated them heavily
Thirdly : the Hadrien and Antonin Wall say otherwise. They are not "walls of fear" but rather a rationalized mean to control a border and trade through it as well as infiltration of some unresting pesty savages, all that with a limited amount of manpower : i have to find the numbers but the Walls were pretty much poorly manned (that detail shows that there was no fear of large scale invasion)
Moreover Antonin wall is posterior to Hadrien wall, and upper north, showing that when they wanted the Romans could expand their control northern
The article is just a neo romantic B****ty way of writting the historyunder a scope so common in 19 and 20e century when local nationalists were playing the proud fibber of the ancestors and the Nation by showing how they defeated heavily, back in the days, the most powerful army on the world. That's classy with germanic romanticism and the Teuroburg Wald history (forgetting to say that after Teutoburg, the germans were heavily beaten several times by Romans expeditions)
Frankly nothing to see there and just a stereotypic way of reading history
Typical dailyfail
Mordoror, you are ruining a perfectly good thread with too many facts.And actually the article refers to fort sites located way up north from the Antonine wall, that's the point of the news piece actually. Either too savage place, or not interesting enough for Romans or lacking anything useful for them, those can be discussed further of course.
Mordoror, this is not about modern politics. You're being a bit paranoid. Archeology=good.
Yes it is, it's something for the Scottish nationalists to jack off to while ignoring that that these people weren't Scots they were Picts most of which were killed off by the Irish Scots hundreds of years later, ironically the same Picts who chased the Celts out of Scotland who then had to call on the Anglo Saxons to come and stop the Picts, and I wish people would stop using Scotland, Wales and England these countries didn't come about for hundreds of years.Mordoror, this is not about modern politics. You're being a bit paranoid. Archeology=good.
Weirdly even though this is the period in which the English, Scottish and Welsh people came about we aren't taught anything about it in school, then again probably a good thing as it would be turned into just another England VS Scotland argument.
Oh i was just reacting about the title that has obviously an agendaMordoror, this is not about modern politics. You're being a bit paranoid. Archeology=good.
In fact i would be interested in reading the archeological article (i.e in the concerned peer review paper) rather than the biased dailyfail abstract
@Custodes you are right but unfortunately modern politics has and will always play on archeological events interpretation (and this is not even modern politic as it has its roots in the 1800-1900 era with the rise of european nationalisms and nation-states)
@pocoloco
Indeed the article refers to forts sites north to Antonin wall. Forgetting to say that Legions had the habit to built up a transient fortified position every day and a semi permanent fortified position every week or so when on an expeditionnary deployement. That could very well mean that the roman legions were roaming the area (contradictory fact with the reports saying that the Romans feared the northern tribes) but didn't settled there (obviously because it was not really interesting to chase not centralized tribes for a pinch of mud and hides)
Lesser fort numbers southern of the Hadrian wall could mean that they were permanently garissoned in some few area (so not on expeditionnary mood anymore but on garisson situation) which was the case (at the top of Roman presence there were only 3 legions deployed on Britain Islands)
No such thing as Celts, that's an invented term by an 18thC Welsh monk trying to drum up the pan-'celtic' brotherhood in the British Isles. The Keltoi were a tribe encountered by the ancient Greeks. The Scots were the Scotti, Gaels from Dal Riata (northern Ireland) who later settled, fought and merged with the Picts (who were usurped by dynastic intermarriage with the Scotti, and then disappeared from history, and the Scots emerged). The Picts were the original BRITISH tribal people from northern BRITAIN. They inflicted a huge defeat on an invading Northumbrian Angle army at Dun Nechtain.
The Blue woad was used for religious reasons, and also according to some research as it prevented wound infection. They fought ***** and spiked hair because it was considered a manly thing to do and would intimidate the smaller Roman enemy, nothing to do with clothing being dragged into wounds, didn't have armour because they couldn't afford any those who could wore it.
Northern Britain was desolate to the Romans they had no economic need to go further north, so they didn't that's all. Remember they main reason they came to Britain was economic, the island was wealthy in tin (for bronze), silver, iron and gold, slaves etc etc.
If you get the chance see the Roman artifacts from Hadrian's Wall in the British Museum, fascinating, my favourite were the postcards (thin wooden cards) written by soldiers to their families in Italy and Syria, one asking his mother to send more socks due to the cold weather.
2000 yrs ago and realise we're all he same!
Aye. Most informative post.
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