Indiana First State to Allow Citizens to Shoot Law Enforcement Officers

[HK in AK]

Well this certainly makes you wonder ........

Police officers in Indiana are upset over a new law allowing residents to use deadly force against public servants, including law enforcement officers, who unlawfully enter their homes. It was signed by Republican Governor Mitch Daniels in March.

The first of its kind in the United States, the law was adopted after the state Supreme Court went too far in one of its rulings last year, according to supporters. The case in question involved a man who assaulted an officer during a domestic violence call. The court ruled that there was “no right to reasonably resist unlawful entry by police officers.”

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/03...lice-officers/

[tokengator]

There's been an increasing militarization of local and state police procedure, and a sense of over aggressiveness in LE tactics perpetrated against citizens entitled to a presumption of innocence.
When plainly ridiculous outcomes are explained away by members of by police dept's as "the police were following proper procedure", this is the result you end up with. "Proper procedure" will get redefined for them, whether they like it or not.

It's time they figure out how to do the job without acting like an occupying army. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwyn_...ence_drug_raid

So in the future, when ridiculousness such as that occur, guys like Sheriff Jackson will say that his dept ****ed up. Not, “we'd do it again. Tonight.”

I am not necessarily in favor of this particular law, but it is important that we citizens start reaffirming our right to resist unlawful arrest. "Duty to submit" is against the very moral fiber this country was founded on.

[tokengator]

in the same spirit:


U.S. Cities Embrace Software To Automatically Detect "Suspicious" Behavior

San Francisco is set to become the latest U.S. city to invest in software, created by Texas-based BRS Labs, that monitors and memorizes movements as they are captured on security cameras. The software, AISight, watches footage in real-time and—like a human would—learns to understand, detect, and report “suspicious or abnormal behavior.”

[CJvR]

Well this certainly makes you wonder ........

That have to be one of the stupidest things I have ever heard of, it like it is purpose designed to make a bad situation even worse. It is one thing not to be held accountable for taking a swing or a shot at an unknown intruder who then turns out to be a police officer. It is quite another to do the same after you know that little detail but is pissed because you think you are innocent of whatever. Do they think that being met with violent resistance will make the police apologize and retreat?

[Dirtydiaper]

Read about this yesterday. Seems like a strange law to legislate. It's not like there is a problem with cops unlawfully busting down peoples doors in the US, is it?

[Dominique]

There's been an increasing militarization of local and state police procedure, and a sense of over aggressiveness in LE tactics perpetrated against citizens entitled to a presumption of innocence.
When plainly ridiculous outcomes are explained away by members of by police dept's as "the police were following proper procedure", this is the result you end up with. "Proper procedure" will get redefined for them, whether they like it or not.

It's time they figure out how to do the job without acting like an occupying army. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwyn_...ence_drug_raid

So in the future, when ridiculousness such as that occur, guys like Sheriff Jackson will say that his dept ****ed up. Not, “we'd do it again. Tonight.”

I am not necessarily in favor of this particular law, but it is important that we citizens start reaffirming our right to resist unlawful arrest. "Duty to submit" is against the very moral fiber this country was founded on.

BS, the average person on the street doesn't have fvcking clue as to what a LEO can, and can't do. I've had so many idiots try to tell me why the think I can't arrest them it's not even funny. All this law is going to do is get more people injured or killed. As far as the comments about the "militarization" of law enforcement goes, law enforcement agencies are paramilitary organizations, they use certain tactics because, guess what, they work. People always want to use a few cherry picked examples of mistakes to say that law enforcement is out of control, yet every year tens of thousands of warrants are served, hundreds of thousands of arrests are made, and people are successfully prosecuted, but people ignore those because it feed into the image they want to portray of law enforce running wild and doing whatever the hell they want.

[tokengator]

BS, the average person on the street doesn't have fvcking clue as to what a LEO can, and can't do. I've had so many idiots try to tell me why the think I can't arrest them it's not even funny. All this law is going to do is get more people injured or killed. As far as the comments about the "militarization" of law enforcement goes, law enforcement agencies are paramilitary organizations, they use certain tactics because, guess what, they work. People always want to use a few cherry picked examples of mistakes to say that law enforcement is out of control, yet every year tens of thousands of warrants are served, hundreds of thousands of arrests are made, and people are successfully prosecuted, but people ignore those because it feed into the image they want to portray of law enforce running wild and doing whatever the hell they want.

Well who do you think pushed for this law? The citizens. Cops view their jobs through their own perspectives. Their first goal is to stay alive. So anything that they feel may put them at MORE risk, they will oppose reflexively. The LE community is going to always represent the side of our "public" which pushes for what is best for LE, not necessarily what is best for civil liberties, or society in general. That is just human nature. Its the same reason unions push for the highest wages for their members, agents push for the highest contract for their stars, etc. Which is why it must be counter balanced by citizens demanding more accountability and changes to laws in order to change the paradigm. Localities need to rein in LE departments and there need to be new policies, laws and procedures put in place to start FORCING LE to return to its roots, and get away from this militarized "War" concept.

With the internet reporting and video phones, too many average citizens around the country are beginning to wonder wtf is going on with the LE profession that is supposed to be serving and protecting them. And the internet/video genie ain't gonna be put back into the bottle...it's a current and growing part of the civic landscape.

Average citizens go wtf when they read about a presumed-innocent former Marine ending up dead with 71 bullets in him from a bunch of hooded home invaders he just woke up to, having not fired a shot himself, no different than an assault scene straight out Afghanistan, and one year later no evidence that he was involved in any wrong-doing. And in spite of the possibility/likelihood that an innocent man was murdered in his own home, LE's attitude is that it wasn't a problem, nothing was done wrong, and it's all proper procedure. That's a problem a problem with the "procedures" then and if LE doesn't recognize and address it (which unfortunately they seem not to), then citizens will begin addressing it instead.

Same with the botched invasion the Mayor's home in Maryland that I linked, where the Sheriff was so comfortable with his "procedures" that he stated he'd "do it again. Tonight".

Same when video surfaces that shows physical violence being perpetrated against citizens on the street, where it is obviously completely out of proportion to the situation.

Same when citizens are peaceably exercising their Constitutional rights by documenting an arrests or other police confrontations with video recorders, only to be treated like criminals themselves.

The public sees this and says wtf? They wonder what it is LE is trying to hide that they won't even allow their actions to captured on video? And they begin to suspect that the only reason LE doesn't want to be video taped is because they must be operating in a way not allowed by law. This last issue is becoming an increasingly larger PR issue for the LE profession.

Same when LE circles the wagons when things go obviously and terribly wrong, and then makes matters even worse by attempting to defend the indefensible.


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[tokengator]

People always want to use a few cherry picked examples of mistakes to say that law enforcement is out of control,

examples where people end up dead. Ever heard the saying that is better 10 guilty men go free than one man being wrongly convicted? Our laws are there for a purpose and the LE are not the judge, jury and executioner. When innocent people are being GUNNED down all in the name of "proper procedure", there is something horribly amiss
,

[Hollis]

Arizona use to have a law like this. A citizen has the right to resist a unlawful arrest. The key word is "Unlawful". Probably, lawfulness is generally determined in a court of law, not on the street.

[tokengator]

Arizona use to have a law like this. A citizen has the right to resist a unlawful arrest. The key word is "Unlawful". Probably, lawfulness is generally determined in a court of law, not on the street.

not sure there is anything lawful about no-knock swat raids

[Rattfink]

Arizona use to have a law like this. A citizen has the right to resist a unlawful arrest. The key word is "Unlawful". Probably, lawfulness is generally determined in a court of law, not on the street.

To enter your home do LEAs not have to present a warrant and/ or badge? I just ask because anyone coming into my house uninvited with a gun who doesn't identify themselves properly is liable to have a bad day.

[Hollis]

not sure there is anything lawful about no-knock swat raids

I would say, read the court opinion, study law, etc, Unless you feel your opinion trumps the SCOTUS'.


Rattfink, Also this topic has been discussed before, when it first came up. The search function can be very useful. The issue how does one determine the Unlawfulness of a act?

[Dragonscript]

Read about this yesterday. Seems like a strange law to legislate. It's not like there is a problem with cops unlawfully busting down peoples doors in the US, is it?

I think the intent is something like this: You are at home asleep when someone breaks into your house screaming and shouting. You have no idea who these people are since you don't have your glasses on, and you can't understand a single thing they are saying since you are still mostly asleep. However, these people are loud, aggressive and look to have guns on them so you grab yours and start firing.

Afterwards, if you are still alive, it would go something like this: If the warrant to search your house was legit then you would be on the hook for shooting at officers,and whatever else that may have happened. If the warrant wasn't legit then you wouldn't be charged with a crime for firing at officers. Before this law you would charged with a crime, even if the only thing you were charged with was firing at officers.


There have been several cases around the country where police break into someone's home, the occupants thinking it is a home invasion and try to defend themselves from what they think are criminals trying to steal/kill them. The cases that become well known are the ones where the police hit the wrong house or hit a house based on bad intel.

[shermbodius]

This sounds dangerous.

[tokengator]

I would say, read the court opinion, study law, etc, Unless you feel your opinion trumps the SCOTUS'.


Rattfink, Also this topic has been discussed before, when it first came up. The search function can be very useful. The issue how does one determine the Unlawfulness of a act?

and this state is giving rights back to citizens. They are telling police that they need to rethink their no-knock "proper procedure". This may or may not be the right way to do it but that is what happens when the LE forces the hand of the citizens to do what the LE refuses to do