F-16 co-designer blames stealth ‘skin' for F-22 problems

[Rattfink]

^ I was wondering how vapors permeated the cabin going mach OMFG. It didn't quite add up for me. However, it would explain why ground crews are also experiencing these same symptoms resembling oxygen deprivation.

[picanha the second]

No those vapours can surely not diffuse through the aircrafts skin. Furthermore the pressurization (which is also done with filtered air) would not allow it anyway. And I strongly suspect the glues emitting vapours on the ground. Would be a real bad glue, they normally only emit when applied or under special environmental conditions such as heat (and in that case losing adhesive strength).
When adhesion is complete the materials and adhesives normally form a continous unit.

But materials and chemicals used in aeronautics are very often highly toxic and great care has to be taken when using them. WARNINGs and CAUTIONS everywhere!

[wheeleuss]

Okay. How about blindingly biased old codger who is stuck in 1965 when it comes to fighter design?

Exactly. He's just trotting out the same bias he had against the F-15 and has transferred it wholesale to today's generation of jets. I don't know how those three (Sprey/Wheeler/Ricionni) can even look themselves in the mirror. Absolutely disgusting.

Probably because it has been designed with the same basic concept? By the same USAF!
Do you know something about how F16 had to be literally imposed to USAF?
What should be <<disgusting>>? They have gained nothing from they work so what is your point ?
Anyway I do not know who you think to be to call Pierre Sprey an idiot but you should try not to be an idiot yourself

[C.Puffs]

Probably because it has been designed with the same basic concept? By the same USAF!
Do you know something about how F16 had to be literally imposed to USAF?
What should be <<disgusting>>? They have gained nothing from they work so what is your point ?
Anyway I do not know who you think to be to call Pierre Sprey an idiot but you should try not to be an idiot yourself

Looks like someone missed his dose of thorozine.

[muttbutt]

Probably because it has been designed with the same basic concept? By the same USAF!
Do you know something about how F16 had to be literally imposed to USAF?
What should be <<disgusting>>? They have gained nothing from they work so what is your point ?
Anyway I do not know who you think to be to call Pierre Sprey an idiot but you should try not to be an idiot yourself

I don't often agree with Puff's but seriously if it was up to Pierre Sprey the USAF would probably still be flying P-51's.

[Corrupt]

Not even fvcking close.

FY2012 USAF budget $166.3 billion with $5.3 billion for the F-35 program. Or about 3%.

http://www.saffm.hq.af.mil/shared/me...110210-034.pdf

3/4 of the procurement budget maybe?

[domokun]

3/4 of the procurement budget maybe?

3% of budget is the truth, but it isn't whole truth either. But as they say half truth is worse than lie. The actual figure is much higher, it's just that some of costs aren't direct, so in reality 3% of budget going to F-35 is wrong by order of magnitude.

F-35 and F-22 also require weapons, fuel, spare parts and personnel to operate 'em. If you include those into price tag, it's going to be lot bigger than just roll out costs of aircraft. 20 million $ aircraft might actually cost closer to 100 million $ if you include indirect costs.

[travis911]

Maybe its time to jump to a 6th generation design at this point... lol

[stealth master]

Pierre may be wrong, but I think its entirely inappropriate to call him names. Can we not just thank him for his service to this country and leave it at that?

[carbonrod]

I don't often agree with Puff's but seriously if it was up to Pierre Sprey the USAF would probably still be flying P-51's.

No, the USAF would be flying the A-10, and a performance rich version of the f-16 with no heavyweight gold plating.

Pierre may be wrong, but I think its entirely inappropriate to call him names. Can we not just thank him for his service to this country and leave it at that?

+1. I don't agree with all his assertions, and wonder about this one, though he may have an ace up his sleeve.

[C.Puffs]

3% of budget is the truth, but it isn't whole truth either. But as they say half truth is worse than lie. The actual figure is much higher, it's just that some of costs aren't direct, so in reality 3% of budget going to F-35 is wrong by order of magnitude.

Show us some evidence and the numbers.

F-35 and F-22 also require weapons, fuel, spare parts and personnel to operate 'em. If you include those into price tag, it's going to be lot bigger than just roll out costs of aircraft. 20 million $ aircraft might actually cost closer to 100 million $ if you include indirect costs.

Fvckin' A, you gonna count the cost of corn fields in Iowa too? Because, ya know, F-22 pilots gotta eat.

[C.Puffs]

Pierre may be wrong, but I think its entirely inappropriate to call him names. Can we not just thank him for his service to this country and leave it at that?

Sorry, but he's made his bed. He can sleep in it.

[SpudmanWP]

"performance rich" against what? He did not want a radar on the F-16.

He hated what the F-16 has become, ie a multi-role fighter.

If it were up to Sprey & the Fighter Mafia, the F-16 would have never participated in GW1, GW2, Afghanistan, etc because all they wanted it to be was a LWF.

The success that the F-16 has become is due to the designers/upgrades OVERCOMING the limitations put on the F-16 by the LWF program (eg no radar, pods, "advanced" avionics, etc)

[C.Puffs]

"performance rich" against what? He did not want a radar on the F-16 and God forbid it becomes "multi-role".

He hated what the F-16 has become, ie a multi-role fighter.

If it were up to Sprey & the Fighter Mafia, the F-16 would have never participated in GW1, GW2, Afghanistan, etc because all the wanted it to be was a LWF.

The success that the F-16 has become is due to the designers/upgrades OVERCOMING the limitations put on the F-16 by the LWF program (eg no radar, pods, "advanced" avionics, etc)

And calling Sprey a "co-designer" seems a bit of a stretch IMO.

[SpudmanWP]

Calling it a "bit" of a stretch is a big understatement to say the least.

Sprey & the Fighter Mafia pushed to concept of a LWF but played no part in the design of either the YF-16 or YF-17.