Where did it go wrong that started the Cold War ...

[Noons86.]

The Cold War, at its base, was really just a power struggle between two powers. Both wanted more power and security, and vied for it against each other. Pretty much the norm throughout history when you have states of comparable power and influence interacting with each other. What made this one different were advancements in technology - it made the playing field much bigger and the stakes much higher.

So to put it plainly, nothing "went wrong." The two strongest powers in the world becoming adversaries is exactly what was going to happen, and it's exactly what has happened since the beginning of civilization.

[KoTeMoRe]

It kinda didn't help that the Bolsheviks were basically a terrorist organisation that declared an ideological war on the capitalist world.

Or that the mass of relevant Nations had anti-Union legislation, No Individual voting rights and looked at Class structure as a Natural and perfectly valid political subdivision.

The Cold war was only the most recent and complex personification of a power struggle. The supra-National idea that sustained it, is all but gone although, perversely, the Capitalist system uses that same idea, to actually organize against those national interests it helped promote, a trans-national labour market which in the End will kill the very structure those so called Capitalists try to build their sand castles.

God, Country, Family...

[C.Puffs]

The Cold War, at its base, was really just a power struggle between two powers. Both wanted more power and security, and vied for it against each other. Pretty much the norm throughout history when you have states of comparable power and influence interacting with each other. What made this one different were advancements in technology - it made the playing field much bigger and the stakes much higher.

And infinitely more interesting. If we had a functioning government, these days would be downright boring.

[James]

Stalin was an SOB.

[sgt_G]

we had the bomb, they had a huge army

we feared they would invade with the huge army they feared we'd use the bomb

they build the bomb to be the big boy on the block we build more and bigger bombs

we build more and bigger bombs....etc etc etc

bottom line, one wanted to be top dog and kept trying to outdo the other....

my thoughts anyway.....

[Ought Six]

The "hologram of democracy" bit, if you will.

I think that our elected leaders are mostly window dressing. The system is manipulated by people of great power to their advantage. The elected leaders can sometimes make a difference, and unexpected events can overwhelm everything and take us in new directions, but most of the time it the manipulators who pull the strings are the ones who really decide where we are headed. I do not think it is the 'Illuminati' or any of that conspiracy crap. There are just some families and people who have their hands on the levers of power in this world, and they generally do not run for office or parade in front of the media spotlight.

[Kilgor]

Or that the mass of relevant Nations had anti-Union legislation, No Individual voting rights and looked at Class structure as a Natural and perfectly valid political subdivision.

And so remind me how communism fixed this ? Oh thats right, by taking away the vote, banning independent trade unions, and then put the cherry on top.. lots of executions for political crimes.

The so called Marxist solution to these problem was infinitely worse than "disease" in the first place.

Queue the whole "there was never real communism" and other apologist nonsense

[BogT]

1. West/East did not like each other before the war, but who didn't.
2. Capitalism+Nationalism (not the extremist one) did not like Socialism+Comintern before the war either.
3. After the war, capitalism was just as strong as before, but communism transformed itself from a backwards experiment localized in a peasant dominated country at the edge of civilization to an industrial powerhouse that started to dominate half of the world, with huge number of loyal subjects and rocket technology .

If instead of communism we would of have a "flower-power" movement just as powerful or influential that opposed free trade and individualism, we still would of had a cold war. The "funny" thing is that it took defeating the Nazis to organize communism in USSR otherwise it would of collapsed by itself long before, without anyone really caring about them (my supposition). So we can blame the Nazis for communism!

[KoTeMoRe]

And so remind me how communism fixed this ? Oh thats right, by taking away the vote, banning independent trade unions, and then put the cherry on top.. lots of executions for political crimes.

The so called Marxist solution to these problem was infinitely worse than "disease" in the first place.

Queue the whole "there was never real communism" and other apologist nonsense

The so called *marxist* solution? Fourrier and others brought up sufficient ammo to anyone willing to dismantle the system WITHOUT violence. Guess who went VIOLENT? Well as I usually say, winners get to write history, the loosers to live it.

Unions in Europe came up with a Parallel distributon network that bypassed the logic of profit (cooperatives) guess how it was brought down?

I guess 2 world wars, colonisation, mass massacres, mass starvations etc were soo communist in design and nature, right? BTW I fail to see how a Socialist regime would be equated with Communism? Or is the KKK your prototypical conservative movement? I fail to see how a Soviet replica of Church dressed into a Party garb, makes the CPSU a honest to god communist movement. The funny part is coming.

And off course things will change. The moment Nation States will be threatened by the borderless Capitalist system, your lot will send good folk to get slaughtered. Autism is the purest form of Nationalism.

[PostmandPer]

I dont get it.... Apparently everyone knew by 1917 and onwards that the Soviets were evil and wanted 'world domination?'. Hitler openly stated that he wanted to destroy the communists.

Why did the other western countries aid communism if they knew they was evil?

[Einhander]

Not "evil" but highly undesirable to old way of things. It is now we(everyone) know what Trotsky and, subsequently, all hardcore Commies wanted to do with the planet, but back then it was percieved just as an empty preaches to brainwash eastern peasantry. It was WW2 what really boosted USSR' industry, not some world domination plans.

[Kaplanr]

No one knew squat by 1917. Many assumed; if you're Aristocracy, than anything with "workers" and "proletariat" is threatening. There were many well-meaning people who thought Soviet Russia was evolving into the new Jerusalem on the Hill as late as the 1930s. They were taken in by the glowing reports of five-year plans and the "New Soviet Man" twaddle.

I dont get it.... Apparently everyone knew by 1917 and onwards that the Soviets were evil and wanted 'world domination?'. Hitler openly stated that he wanted to destroy the communists.

Why did the other western countries aid communism if they knew they was evil?

[Xaito]

Soviet Union reminds me of France under napoleon.
Napoleon had spread revolutionary sentiment of "liberté, égalité, fraternité" (which monarchs didn't like back in the day) and went for a landgrab to install friendly regimes throughout the continent.

[Corrupt]

Why did the other western countries aid communism if they knew they was evil?

Churchill, was very anti communist. With France out of the war and the German army twenty miles away over the channel, he didn't really have many options. Then Hitler made the number one mistake of land warfare (don't invade Russia), which evoked the famous quote "If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons."

[Maximmmm]

Not to mention he wanted to strangle us in the cradle, great man, but by god did he hate the bollocks out of us.