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Thread: British Memorial Honors World War II Bomber Crews

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    Senior Member KB's Avatar
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    Default British Memorial Honors World War II Bomber Crews

    LONDON — Just once, in a raid over Düsseldorf in 1944, Jack Watson said on Thursday, he had a momentary misgiving about the carpet bombing of German cities that became, after World War II, one of the most controversial aspects of the Allied operations that won the war.

    It came on a rare daylight raid as Mr. Watson, a flight engineer and an occasional bomb-aimer, looked down from 20,000 feet and released the payload beneath him in one of the four-engined Lancaster aircraft that were the workhorses of the Royal Air Force Bomber Command. The Lancaster’s role was mainly in “area bombing” — mostly night raids that targeted whole areas of Germany’s main industrial cities.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/29/wo...-crews.html?hp

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    Senior Member Connaught Ranger's Avatar
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    Winston Churchill, an enthusiastic proponent of the raids in the darkest years of the war, effectively disowned them after 1945, and Bomber Command veterans, unlike other components of Britain’s war machine, struggled in the postwar years with what seemed to many a pariah status.
    I believe they were afforded the same prestige as all the other services that served, Job done, war won, time to get on with their lives.

    “When I pushed the button and saw the bombs going down, I saw what looked like a housing estate, and I thought, ‘There are women and children down there,’ ” recalled Mr. Watson, who was 21 at the time. “But right away, I had to get back to scanning the sky for German fighters and ack-ack batteries, and my mind moved on. Apart from that, I never, ever had any doubt that what I was doing was right.”
    "Housing Estates" I always thought were a post W.W.2 conception. apart from that no matter what country civilian houses were inter-spaced throughout towns and cities.

    There was no Bomber Command campaign medal of the kind issued for almost every other major phase of the war, and no mention of the bomber crews’ role in Churchill’s victory speech after the German surrender in May 1945.
    So they were left out with regards medals???
    The Air Crew Europe Star was a campaign medal of the British Commonwealth, awarded for service in World War II. Specifically, the medal was awarded to Commonwealth aircrew who participated in operational flights over Europe, from UK bases.
    Two months operational flying was required between 3 September 1939 and 5 June 1944 in order to qualify. The 1939-1945 Star must have been earned before commencing qualifying service for the Air Crew Europe Star. From 6 June 1944 (D-Day), operational flying over Europe qualified aircrew for the France and Germany Star.

    British uniform regulations stipulated that neither the Atlantic Star nor the France and Germany Star would be awarded to a recipient of the Air Crew Europe Star. Subsequent entitlement to the Atlantic Star or the France and Germany Star was denoted by the award of the appropriate clasp to the Air Crew Europe Star.



    • The Air Crew Europe Star is a six–pointed star of yellow copper zinc alloy, with a height of 44mm and a maximum width of 38mm.
    • The obverse has a central design of the Royal Cypher of King George VI, surmounted by a crown. The cypher is surrounded by a circlet containing the words 'The Air Crew Europe Star'.
    • The reverse is plain, although Stars issued to Australian and South African personnel have recipient names impressed.
    • The ribbon for this medal, along with those of the other Second World War campaign stars, is reputed to have been designed by King George VI. The sky is represented by pale blue, night flying by the black stripes on the edges, with the yellow stripes representing enemy searchlights.

    Clasps

    Regulations only allow one clasp to be worn with the Star. When the ribbon is worn alone a silver rosette ribbon emblem is worn to denote the award of a clasp.

    • Atlantic

    Awarded to those who subsequently became entitled to the Atlantic Star.
    • France and Germany

    Awarded to those who subsequently became entitled to the France and Germany Star.
    And:-

    The France and Germany Star was a campaign medal of the British Commonwealth, awarded for service in World War II.

    The medal was awarded for operational service in France, Belgium, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, and Germany from 6 June 1944 (D-Day) to 8 May 1945. The qualifying sea area is the North Sea south of a line from the Firth of Forth to Kristiansand (South), in the English Channel and in the Bay of Biscay east of longitude 6° west, provided such service was directly in support of land operations in France, Belgium, the Netherlands or Germany.
    British uniform regulations stipulated that neither the Atlantic Star nor the Air Crew Europe Star would be awarded to a recipient of the France and Germany Star. Subsequent entitlement to the Atlantic Star was denoted by the award of the Atlantic clasp. A clasp for the Air Crew Europe Star was not issued as that Star could not be earned after 5 June 1944.
    Army personnel who entered Austria may not qualify for this award, as their service is recognised by the grant of the Italy Star.



    • The France and Germany Star is a six–pointed star of yellow copper zinc alloy, with a height of 44mm and a maximum width of 38mm.
    • The obverse has a central design of the Royal Cypher of King George VI, surmounted by a crown. The cypher is surrounded by a circlet containing the words 'The France and Germany Star'.
    • The reverse is plain, although Stars issued to Australian and South African personnel have recipient names impressed.
    • The ribbon for this medal, along with those of the other Second World War campaign stars, is reputed to have been designed by King George VI. Red, white, and blue were chosen as being symbolic of the national colours of France, the Netherlands, and the United Kingdom.

    Clasps

    When the ribbon is worn alone a silver rosette ribbon emblem is worn to denote the award of a clasp.

    • Atlantic

    Awarded to those who subsequently became entitled to the Atlantic Star.
    May those who fell +Rest In Peace+

    Connaught Ranger.

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    Very good memorial.
    There is nothing controversial about bombing military sites that those cities housed. It was just a hype made by some "historians" interested in publicity.

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    It took the loss of 55,000+ brave men and 70 years of trying to be PC and not giving them their due recognition but finally those souls have a fitting memorial.

    Rest in peace and thanks.

    curlyboy

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    Quote Originally Posted by curlyboy View Post
    It took the loss of 55,000+ brave men and 70 years of trying to be PC and not giving them their due recognition but finally those souls have a fitting memorial.
    What was the reason for?

    At least there is a street named for the leading German Night Fighter Ace in his hometown.

    That guy was 22 years old and shot down 121 english bombers.

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    Rest in peace

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    Quote Originally Posted by johanness View Post
    What was the reason for?

    At least there is a street named for the leading German Night Fighter Ace in his hometown.

    That guy was 22 years old and shot down 121 english bombers.
    To be fair what bomber command did during the war and the casualties inflicted on the German civilian population was seen as maybe a step too far but in one time Churchill himself Decried that the bombers were the only way the allies could strike the Germans and advocated the destruction of cities and the minute the war ended he ignored the sacrifice they made possibly not to rub salt in the wound of the just finished conflict but this is not a good enough vindication of his attitude in the thank you speech.

    I know at least one veteran who had no problem dropping the bombs but hated how every service after the war got recognition for what they did except the one service that actually hit Germany at home, unfortunately he passed away a few years ago so never got to see this memorial.

    Curlyboy

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    Quote Originally Posted by johanness View Post

    At least there is a street named for the leading German Night Fighter Ace in his hometown.

    That guy was 22 years old and shot down 121 english bombers.
    That is hardly surprising. Even today they are German facilities named after people engaging in pacification campaigns by Nazis in the East, and post-war mass murderers from Nazi forces were elected by German voters into office. That a town named a street after Nazi German fighter who fought to prolong the existence of a regime engaging in extermination of several nations is unfortunately not a surprise to anyone who knows about how denazification failed.


    As to the monument-I decided I will travel there and lay flowers to those heroes. Maybe I will take some pictures for forum users to see.

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    Sums up the pilots feelings on the situation...

    “They started it and we finished it,” - Frank Boyd

    About time they got recognised

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    Quote Originally Posted by JustBrowsing View Post
    That is hardly surprising. Even today they are German facilities named after people engaging in pacification campaigns by Nazis in the East, and post-war mass murderers from Nazi forces were elected by German voters into office. That a town named a street after Nazi German fighter who fought to prolong the existence of a regime engaging in extermination of several nations is unfortunately not a surprise to anyone who knows about how denazification failed.


    As to the monument-I decided I will travel there and lay flowers to those heroes. Maybe I will take some pictures for forum users to see.
    This appears to be somewhat of an agenda to you, and that conclusion is formed by just how many times you manage to work it into any thread connected with the words "Germany & German" in it.

    Maybe its about time you gave your trolling a rest.

    Connaught Ranger.

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    buck duck huck luck muck puck ruck suck tuck yuck fuuuuuuuu muck's Avatar
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    ^ Agreed. 12345

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    Quote Originally Posted by Connaught Ranger View Post
    This appears to be somewhat of an agenda to you, and that conclusion is formed by just how many times you manage to work it into any thread connected with the words "Germany & German" in it.

    Maybe its about time you gave your trolling a rest.

    Connaught Ranger.
    As I studied German history during uni, this topic(German refusal to deal with Nazi past, and myth of national identity) is usually of interest to me.

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    buck duck huck luck muck puck ruck suck tuck yuck fuuuuuuuu muck's Avatar
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    As I studied German history during uni, this topic(German refusal to deal with Nazi past, and myth of national identity) is usually of interest to me.
    That's not only a false assertion without substance, but a bloody offence whilst we're at it. I'd rather you took CR's advice and the Gods know I don't agree often with him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JustBrowsing View Post
    As I studied German history during uni, this topic(German refusal to deal with Nazi past, and myth of national identity) is usually of interest to me.
    Interesting. What was your BA / MA / dissertation thesis about?

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    Quote Originally Posted by muck View Post
    That's not only a false assertion without substance, but a bloody offence whilst we're at it.
    Heinz Reinefarth the butcher of Warsaw Uprising who was responsible for mass murder of hundreds of thousands of Poles was democratically elected by German citizens to be a mayor of a city in post-war Germany.
    Theodoer Oberbalnder who advocated that Poland has "millions of citizens too many" and was a devoted Nazi was chosen by Adenauer to be a minister in his cabinet.
    Or this:
    http://www.tnr.com/article/amnesty-and-amnesia
    As of January 31, 1951, the amnesty legislation had benefited 792,176 people. They included people with six-month sentences, but also about 35,000 people with sentences of up to one year who were released on parole. Frei specifies that these figures include a bit more than 3,000 functionaries of the SA, the SS, and the Nazi Party who participated in dragging victims to jails and camps; 20,000 other Nazi perpetrators sentenced for "deeds against life" (presumably murder); 30,000 sentenced for causing bodily injury, and about 5,200 charged with "crimes and misdemeanors in office."
    I could go on, but just a few examples like this prove that West Germany had not much really against Nazis.

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