I still think its very sad, people get crazy over this incident because it was a zionist jew
But slaugthering of children in Syria is not so newsworthy, or how PA security Beat up women 2-3 days ago.
Well...ok, they were protesting against Abu Mazens decision Tor hold talks with Israel again.
Just send them there..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_f..._and_Diversity
Would help to keep them Palestinian bastards locked in their homes.
And the connection to Israel, Israeli Border Police is what?Originally Posted by Nyusu
...
It shows that mere kick in the ass in no torture, but an educational method for kids who are too impudent.
Somebody commented in the article your provided "Mistaken for a Palestinian most likely"(Apr.16, 2012) Israel Border Police beat, detain 9-year-old Jewish boy in Hebron
http://www.haaretz.com/news/national...ebron-1.424635
Racism?
sarcasm is always lost when one forgets to put the winking or pirate smilie in. my bad.
Dear Baba,
My apologies as I was not able to answer point by point your comments as of yet, but for once I really enjoy the tone of this conversation.
So that things are clear, I am definitely a part of the Israeli Nationalist camp, strong believer in the Greater Israel from every point of view, but tend to look at the conflict that opposes our peoples from a different perspective than the "common wisdom", but this is the subject of another conversation.
Now:
Dear Baba,
First of all let me say that it is refreshing to have a correspondent from the area who doesn't seem to be frothing at the mouth everytime the "zionists" are mentioned. To be absolutely truthful, I visit my relatives in Ramallah about every two years. My wife is the true Ramallahite. Her family lives a few blocks from my family since, historically, Christians founded Ramallah and tend to live around each other.
Now, while I do not condone the action of those border policemen, if only for the fact that they where dumb enough to do it while they should be aware that anything you do in this neighborhood, if you are Israeli, a camera will be pointed at you, and the film will be used against you. Let me add that I do agree with your take on the fact that children are to be protected, even from their own stupidity. True.
Now you may know how situation can spiral out of control very fast, especially when you have young males without adult supervision, or even worse in the case of many Palestinian children, with adult encouragement. True. Palestinian children are used by political groups quite often and it disgusts me. In my presence, my relatives have counseled one of my younger cousins not to go near protests with other children who may not have the best intentions vis-a-vis stone throwing, etc. But, can the same be said of settler children? I am asking a legitimate question because I do not know. Rather, I have only heard from sources I consider credible and I have only seen a few random videos
There is no doubt that any interest group will make use of their families, unconsciously or even knowingly, that is BTW a reproach that some of the Left is having towards the "settlers" community, that by their very presence in the West Bank they endanger their own children and therefore should be stripped of the custody of their own children.
There is no doubt either that children aren't immune to what they are taught at school, what they hear at home etc, and the last 20 years have proven to be a terrible blow to the hope, if there ever was one, that the "next generation" may be able to be partners for peace. So yes, one could argue that Israeli residents of the West Bank, by the very fact that they have children, and many of them, are de facto "endangering" them, but one could argue that this would amount to reproaching people living in not the best neighborhood of having children, talk about social eugenics.
I must recognize thought that while the vast majority of the "settlers" are law abiding, decent citizens with whom you may find enjoyable to even share a glass of wine (kosher of course), the gradual marginalization and isolation of the Jews of Judea and Samaria in the Israeli society has produced a worrisome side effect, what is commonly referred to as the "hilltop youth", youngsters and some adults "handling them" who are at odds with the state of Israel, it's army and police force almost as much as they despise any "arab" presence in the west bank (colonialist term that I used only once for the sake of clarity).
I have witnessed quite often how kids, who know they are usually immune to any IDF/Border Police action, will be the ones to start out rioting, encouraging, taunting and ridiculing not only the "occupation forces" but also their elders who are not interested into starting activities that will eventually back fire into the closing down of the road or the curfew over the town or village. Absolutely true. But peaceful protest should always be allowed if it remains peaceful.
And they usually are allowed when not proving disturbing, the problem is that quite often the "protesters" are then looking for overstaying their permit, looking for a provocation that will trigger a strong response, I'd take for an illustration the infamous case of former deputy Division Commander Lt Colonel Shalom Eisner who hit with his rifle mag well the face of a Danish activist following an authorized demonstration that went awry (http://www.idf.il/1283-15655-en/Dover.aspx)
I have had the chance (dubious) to both witness and participate (from the IDF perspective) in the reduction of those disturbances that are not bringing any solution any closer.
Sometimes, a good correction, close and personal, will be the best tool to bring the message down to a kid that there is no point starting out violence, even "only" verbal violence, and hoping not to be held accountable for that. I agree. I will go so far as to support the practice of grasping the shoulders of proven offenders and yelling in their faces. However, if one is not an offender, then hands off.
Well, while I agree from a rhetorical pov, I am sure you witnessed the prevalent violence that reigns in the Arab world, where physical punishment seems to be the name of the game, and where an oral warning is only seen as weakness.
I wont judge the particular video because I don't know the context, but I would like to to point out that the recent demonstrations in Ramallah against the re-opening of the talks between the PA and Shaul Mofaz, and their "muscular" repression by the EU trained PA Riot Police are to be a case in what is commonly referred as "police violence", I'm still looking for any mention of that in the Palestinian for Human right group, b'tselem, amnesty etc... Not everything said by a Palestinian human rights group is the gospel truth. Nor is everything said by a settler advocacy group the gospel truth either.
Very true, unfortunately, most of the "rights" groups have lost whatever legitimacy they may have held at some point.
They have to be taken as part of the conflict, and tend to present an information that is already pre-filtered to fit a given agenda. As surprising as it may sound thought, the IDF statistics tend to be the most trustworthy when it comes to trying to decipher what is going on on the grounds. The issue is when groups like B'tselem are out of naivety or ill will becoming part and tool in the PA propaganda arsenal.
And BTW, I had the "chance" to see your police force at work in Betlehem, and it is true, compared to the PA police, those Israeli Border Police officers really lack of professionalism when it comes to breaking children bones, lack of practice maybe? I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Are you actually saying that the PA police are more professional than Israeli border police? I am wary of all police in the Middle East. I especially do not like dealing with young Druse: they had a habit of being obnoxious with their use of loudspeakers when in Ramallah years ago and my wife and her sisters had to put up with their cat-calling and advances when they were university students.
Sorry for the slightly sarcastic tone here, and let me give you some context:
A friend of mine who is a photo-journalist came two years ago do a subject on the training by French LEO of the PA police force in the use of the tonfa baton and the different techniques of "less than lethal" methods in hand to hand and riot control.
see his work here: http://www.riva-press.com/det.php?id=2&groid=1202
I then joked with him that it would be a great idea since I saw in 2009 the very strong handed reaction of the PA police against a pro-Hamas demonstration nearby Betlehem, and that the PA police were literally breaking bones this day (well, to be honest, I didn't shed a tear for the demonstrators, even had a few laughs).
As of the relations between Druzes and Christians in this region, there is a lot of bad blood between you guys. But I know what you mean and how embarrassing some situations may be. I have to admit that being posted nearby Bethlehem is always more appreciated by IDF soldiers and Magav officers, simply because there are all those cute christian girls going between the checkpoints. I know also that some soldiers should be reprimanded for their all too familiar attitude, but I have never witnessed what would qualify as harassment.
It's very possible that I would be hated by every extremist group and every government (Israeli, Palestinian or other Arab) in the Middle East since it is not my habit to keep my mouth shut when I see something wrong. This is why I probably would not do well if I lived in the West Bank on a permanent basis. From time to time, I might call Hanan Ashrawi a turd as well as Bibi. I've been warned about this quality of mine. If there is a person in the Middle East that cannot have a beer with me (not that Maccabee or Goldstar crap which I cannot stand and it has nothing to do with who the brewers are, but everything to do with the quality of the brew), then I probably do not want to talk to them (but I would try if absolutely necessary).
It seems that we may share some things in common, and definitely share the same opinion of Hanan Ashrawi
In the PA, you may get in "trouble" very quickly.
By the way, if I did live permanently in the West Bank, I would not mind living next to or with settlers as long as equal rights were absolutely guaranteed and enforced (with the exception of the settler who was arrested for placing a bomb under my cousin's car years ago since I have not heard that he has shown any remorse for doing so. I'm not holding my breath for an apology).
Reciprocity in rights and duties is the key, this is BTW the big debate nowadays in Israeli society (and very badly handled in my opinion).
If you ever come and visit in Israel, give me a PM, the beer is on me (and Taybe is pretty decent, but we do some great micro-brewery stuff too nowadays, while maccabi barely qualifies as a glorified piss in my opinion).
Good day
Huh? Plain clothes officers are part of virtually every police force in the world.
@Atlantic Friend:
This thread with the posts about how wrong it is to hit a child, reminds me the incident of Bayrou hitting a child that was stealing from his pockets, during his presidential campaign. I could not find the Vid to post a link to it and add some fun.
"Tu me fais pas les poches, toi!"@Atlantic Friend:
This thread with the posts about how wrong it is to hit a child, reminds me the incident of Bayrou hitting a child that was stealing from his pockets, during his presidential campaign. I could not find the Vid to post a link to it and add some fun.
Juice Soldier Kicks Palestinian Kid
Islamists Kill And Burn A Person For Blasphemy
^Is the outrage dude a local celeb?
Yes, kind off.
He is an ex-militant, who fought against the Indian Army and spent 3 years in jail.
Now he just protests so that people all over can get the lulz.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Rage_Boy
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