Australia’s Submarine Options

[travis911]

Time to sell the aussies are best subs!

[trikora88]

Navy eyeing off new Japanese submarines

July 9, 2012

THE admiral in charge of planning for Australia's next generation of submarines and the chief defence scientist are studying an advanced new submarine in service with the Japanese navy.

Rear-Admiral Rowan Moffitt, head of the Royal Australian Navy's Future Submarine Program, and Dr Alexander Zelinsky, the Chief Defence Scientist, travel to Japan this month to look at the Soryu-class submarines, which started service with the Japan Maritime Self-Defence Force three years ago.

Access to the Soryu technology was discussed during a visit to Australia last month by the Japanese navy's chief, Admiral Masahiko Sugimoto. It was only in December that Tokyo lifted its post-World War II embargo on defence exports.

The 4200-tonne Soryu-class boats are the only new conventional submarines of the size and capabilities set out in Canberra's 2009 defence white paper for 12 new submarines to take over from the Collins-class subs from the late 2020s.

''Our strategy with the Japanese is one of hope, because there are some very attractive characteristics about the Japanese submarine,'' Rear-Admiral Moffitt said.

Full article: http://www.smh.com.au/national/navy-...708-21pgb.html

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

Very interesting.

In all honesty, I was wondering if the Japanese subs would be suitable RAN.
Didn't realize Japan had changed its export policy.

Wouldn't mind if the US selling or leasing Virginia class nuclear subs to Australia, but it really and truly is their decision.

[happyslapper]

Everything from 214's to Collins2 to Astute and Virginia have been mentioned in the context of the RAN. It's a peculiar requirement in many respects, but I think Soryu is probably the closest to the requirement (whilst avoiding the nuclear issue).

I know it's a conversation that's been had on here many times.

[Halidon]

Soryu would be a good starting point, would need to be massaged a bit to meet the RAN's goals for Collins replacement but if done right they could get a good boat out of it. Still think leasing Virginias or co-developing a new common SSK/P would be a better move.

[kakitsubata]

Soryu would be a good starting point, would need to be massaged a bit to meet the RAN's goals for Collins replacement but if done right they could get a good boat out of it. Still think leasing Virginias or co-developing a new common SSK/P would be a better move.

Do you really think USN would have a nuke boat to spare?

[Halidon]

Do you really think USN would have a nuke boat to spare?

It wouldn't be "spare" boats. The US would (in theory) construct additional Virginias specifically to be used by the RAN, with the leasing arrangement defraying the cost to the Australian government and skirting around US export laws (specifically concerning the reactor technology and nuclear material). Since they would not be for the US Navy, the boats could be funded outside of the shipbuilding budget. Most likely, through the Foreign Military Financing and Foreign military Sales programs.

[ltrowley]

I'd like to see us go with the Virginias, tried and tested nukes. trouble is there'd be quite a bit of political backlash here. The nuclear boogeyman is alive and strong here. Despite Australia having great uranium resources and desolate and tectonically stable land to store waste. we could be exporting uranium and getting paid to store waste, such short sightedness.

edit: OT but deep inland nuclear PP's coupled to desalination plants would be a total win

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

Don't Australian subs use the same combat system from the Virginias or something like that?

[ltrowley]

No idea tbh. If they do it's more of reason in my book. Training up nuke techs might be one the bigger hurdles?

[Silent Reader]

Everything from 214's to Collins2 to Astute and Virginia have been mentioned in the context of the RAN. It's a peculiar requirement in many respects, but I think Soryu is probably the closest to the requirement (whilst avoiding the nuclear issue).

I know it's a conversation that's been had on here many times.

Don't forget the 216 - an enlarged version of the 214 - which probably would be next in line of candidates besides the Japanese sub

[happyslapper]

Don't Australian subs use the same combat system from the Virginias or something like that?

I think it's the LA class, rather than Virginias, and they've not finished installing it yet.
I really feel for the RAN's submarine service, there seems to have been a lack of an coherent plan since before the Oberons left service.

It would be great if they could get hold of some SSN's, but I really can't see it happening.

[Halidon]

Don't Australian subs use the same combat system from the Virginias or something like that?

Yes Collins class uses a modifed AN/BYG-1, after 2 failed attempts to source one independently, not exactly the same but pretty good for what it is. The refit program is supposed to finish in 2014, I believe. Last I heard, the replacement program was looking at a full AN/BYG-1 as the baseline, with an eye toward incorporating advances from the Flight III/IV Virginias if possible.

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

Yes Collins class uses a modifed AN/BYG-1, after 2 failed attempts to source one independently, not exactly the same but pretty good for what it is. The refit program is supposed to finish in 2014, I believe. Last I heard, the replacement program was looking at a full AN/BYG-1 as the baseline, with an eye toward incorporating advances from the Flight III/IV Virginias if possible.

Excellent, thank you, Mr. H.

[grendel]

There's some additional info on this related article...

http://www.smh.com.au/national/subma...708-21pk3.html