Reply With QuoteYou are still emotional about having one of your throw pillows knocked onto the floor.
I know! It doesn't make any sense. Then again, this is the police version of event.Originally Posted by NeedsABetterName
You are still emotional about having one of your throw pillows knocked onto the floor.
That and I've been streaming RATM.
Your series of responses in this thread were worth reading and enlightening. One of the questions I asked was answered in detail, which was my question are officers required to announce their presence? If someone had asked me my uninformed opinion and I was forced to respond, I would have made the assumption police officers are required to identify themselves.
I agree the article was so short and light on facts it's difficult to form an opinion.
I have another question. Do large metropolitan cities generally have dedicated SWAT teams or are SWAT teams made up of line officers, who must be accepted into the program and train additional hours?
As I've said, and will continue to say, threads like this go to show that the VAST majority of the general population doesn't have a freaking clue about what's required by LEOs. The same crew that's crying about the police KNOCKING on a door, are the same ones I see crying about how evil jack booted SWAT teams are kicking in doors, and officers should just walk up an knock on the door. If I'm standing at your do, in uniform, and you point a weapon at me, I can use deadly force. I don't have to try to guess what your intentions are, whether the weapon is real, etc. The guy had any number of options available to him (like asking who was at the door, not answering the, calling the police, looking to see who was outside, etc.), but he chose apparently chose poorly.
As far as the deputies go, there will be an investigation, the local prosecutor will look at their actions, so will their agency. They'll examine the agency's use of force policy, how the officers were trained, they're performance and disciplinary records will be looked at, as well as what information they had at the time of the incident, etc. The guy's family will sue, and the county will probably settle out of court. And in the end the deputies still have to live with their choices.
As usual, Laconian and Dom have attempted to explain, in rational terms, what LEOs can and cannot do. Unfortunately it never seems to take with our membership that prefer to second guess and monday morning quarterback based on a vague article. Yes, large police forces in large metro areas have dedicated SWAT teams.
I can see the cops' point of view but it's still disturbing that something like this could happen.
Most SWAT teams are not full time. they're part time units only pulled together for "call outs". Even most large agencies, that maintain full time units, don't use them exclusively for tactical duties. As far as training goes, it's going to very from agency to agency, but the minimum, for guys to maintain any type of useful skill sets, is 12-16 hours a month, in addition to any other training they be required to undertake to maintain their state certifications, or for any type of specialized unit they might be assigned to.
Sir, you are living in a fantasy world. "Middle of the night" search warrants are absolutely the least preferred method of service.
There are infinite possibilities as to what happened when and by whom. "Walking into his house trying to catch him sleeping" is over there on the ridiculous end of the spectrum.
Because it could happen to you or me or anybody else out in Mp.Net land. The guy who got killed may or may not have done something wrong when answering the door, but he still was murdered in his own home from a homeowner or average citizen's perspective.
Perhaps the police did everything according to protocol and regs, nonetheless I hope the responsible PD adopts a policy of full and open disclosure as opposed to trying to brush it under the rug or blame the poor soul who was killed.
The original article is excruciatingly short on detail.
I've knocked on doors in the wee hours many times. Why?:
1. Hey buddy, your garage door is open. I don't want anyone to steal your stuff.
2. Hey buddy, someone just crashed into your mailbox.
3. Hey buddy, the old guy next door is dead. Did you see anything suspicious?
4. Hey buddy, the house next door is on fire. You should evacuate your family.
"Hey buddy, do you know who owns that motorcycle and is he here? We're looking for him" can easily go on the list.
No one ever pointed a gun at me. Several asked 'Who the F is it?', to which I replied: "Sheriff's Department"
Most looked to see me in my pretty uniform. Some called 9-1-1 to verify I was a real Deputy.
This situation is sad, but as has already been explained, pointing a weapon at someone, for no legitimate reason, even in your own home is illegal. Pointing it at armed police officers is deadly.
Hi ya, Trig.
You know better to point out silly little things like facts, and actual real world experience, as our MANY legal eagles, (cause you know, I saw an episode, or tow, of Law and Order), are sure to point out where you're clearly wrong, as it's not what they think is right. But, in the end it really doesn't matter, because they will bitch about any and everything LEOs do, unless is putting the beat down on someone they don't particularly like. Just go back and look at some of the various occupy threads, and some of the same people hoping the police run roughshod over the various protesters, are the same ones wanting these two deputies heads on pikes.
So they shot an occupier?
Dude, awesome.
More video food for thought:
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