Anti-Putin feminist band on trial in Moscow for 'punk prayer'

[Breakfast in Vegas]

Putin polarizes.

[Shurik SST]

Here's an article back from February about another public stunt that was a slap on the wrist - their just as Putin-thrashing song "Putin is scared". They spent 5 hours at the precinct and give 17 dollar fines. Yup. Little did it do to stop them. Wonder why the police did not throw them in jail for 2 years if Putin is sitting behind every police action himself?

http://sptimes.ru/index.php?action_id=2&story_id=35092

The group, which performed a freshly penned anti-Kremlin song called “Putin Got Scared” (Putin Zassal) — complete with colored smoke bombs and a purple feminist flag — was arrested and, after being held for about five hours in a police precinct, two members were fined 500 rubles (around $17) each. The members were charged with holding an unauthorized rally.

[barakelde]

BTW, let me take a broader view of this "art movement". I suppose the chicken masturbation is a stretch but not really. There is apparently an "art" movement which specifically Nadezhda Tolokonikhova was/is a member and that museum show and was/is (I do not know her exact affiliation) with the "art" group Voina whose antics include setting fire to a police car, the art museum orgy (Nadezhda was present as a member), the phallus on the drawbridge etc etc all similar vain and disconnected "art" and "political statements".

Not safe for work!

http://plucer.livejournal.com/266853.html (Voina "art" group)

http://plucer.livejournal.com/55710.html (Nadezhda is a member of the "performing art" group)

http://plucer.livejournal.com/281211.html (the chicken stunt)

So we are not talking some random, silly stunt. This is a group of determined individuals set to "perform" their "art" and anybody pretending they would have stopped if given a stern talking to is just deluded. A punishment has to have some deterrent value also and these silly girls have performed such "art" on many an occasion. This simply is not a simple, unintentional act.

I'll repeat what I asked you earlier - why are you trying to justify PR's punishment by bringing stuff that even the prosecution did not think appropriate to bring up? Is this your idea of how justice works - you get punishment for the crime that you were not even accused of, let alone have been tried for?

PR was tried for "inciting religious hatred". The court had to go through three expert groups to get the opinion it needed and conveniently ignored that PR's stunts were always political (never anti-religion), targeting either Sobyanin or Putin/Gundyayev.

I'll tell you more - the charge of "inciting religious hatred" can (and should, in a perfect world) be brought against RTR, NTV, Channel One, Mamontov, Chaplin et al - those who were spewing rage 24/7 in these six months.

[Shurik SST]

I'll repeat what I asked you earlier - why are you trying to justify PR's punishment by bringing stuff that even the prosecution did not think appropriate to bring up? Is this your idea of how justice works - you get punishment for the crime that you were not even accused of, let alone have been tried for?

Dude. Get a clue. When determining a sentence, a court takes into account other acts of the person accused. If you stole a car before in your life it can and would be used in a trial on maybe robbing something. Do you really not get it??? You really do not get that all these stunts connect into something else? Is that really so hard to comprehend???

PR was tried for "inciting religious hatred". The court had to go through three expert groups to get the opinion it needed and conveniently ignored that PR's stunts were always political (never anti-religion), targeting either Sobyanin or Putin/Gundyayev.

And they called bowing people bi**es and such crap. Here is asch calling people "orthodox monkeys on crack" but God forbid we call that religious hatred. Yup, all political statements. Next time I figure I should rob a bank, maybe I should wear an Obama shirt and if they arrest me I will call it politically motivated.

You really think "lyrics" such as "S##t, s##t, the Lord’s s##t! S##t, s##t, the Lord’s s##t!" are spreading religious tolerance???

http://freepussyriot.org/content/lyr...ngs-pussy-riot

I just do not get how can someone be so stubbornly blind. I'm trying to be rational but it really is hard when people I talk to are turning the stupid on to 12. I mean, they are all politically oriented but somehow they ended up on the floor of a church, desecrating the place in the view of those who come there to follow their religious rites. How political!!! Can you really not make a connection here?

I'll tell you more - the charge of "inciting religious hatred" can (and should, in a perfect world) be brought against RTR, NTV, Channel One, Mamontov, Chaplin et al - those who were spewing rage 24/7 in these six months.

Yea, yea, yea... try maybe pissing over some graves or demolishing a cross like those like-minded lunatics, the Femen... in solidarity of course. It just political protest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AFYEqfSJUI

This is what I am talking about - how does cutting a cross (not your own property BTW) in a park show solidarity with PR??? What kind of a stretch of "logic" allows for this to become a political statement? How does that even compute?

For example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AFYEqfSJUI

Do you not see the parallels of plain stupid and outright criminal these people are committing all in name of "protest"?

[asch]

You stoop too low, my friend. Orthodox monkeys on crack??? You just going around insulting people on religious basis when you get upset or as a form of artistic expression? How did I demostrate "orthodox monkey(ness) on crack"??? Why the sudden turn to personal attacks once I posted an article? It does not appeal to you? Time after time, I have rationally shown various angles only to be jumped on by you in a final act of calling people "orthodox monkeys". Who do you think you are?

what do you mean, who do i think i am? i am a person born and raised in USSR, and got an education based on critical thinking and scientific methods. last few weeks i read a lot of hate speeches from my religiously oriented compatriots. people, who really believe that if you don't share their point of view, then you are agent of the West or possessed by daemon (besnovaty). while in the West that sort of behaviour deemed excentric and bizarre, in our lands it become rather a commonity. that's 21st century in Russia. so i more and more inclined to believe that only sick mind hav need for spiritual crutches. i have respect for religious persons who really live according to your faith commandments and open-minded in general, however, more i interact with modern day "faithful", more "monkeys" associations comes to mind.

BTW, let me take a broader view of this "art movement". I suppose the chicken masturbation is a stretch but not really. There is apparently an "art" movement which specifically Nadezhda Tolokonikhova was/is a member and that museum show and was/is (I do not know her exact affiliation) with the "art" group Voina whose antics include setting fire to a police car, the art museum orgy (Nadezhda was present as a member), the phallus on the drawbridge etc etc all similar vain and disconnected "art" and "political statements".
Not safe for work!
http://plucer.livejournal.com/266853.html (Voina "art" group)
http://plucer.livejournal.com/55710.html (Nadezhda is a member of the "performing art" group)
http://plucer.livejournal.com/281211.html (the chicken stunt)
So we are not talking some random, silly stunt. This is a group of determined individuals set to "perform" their "art" and anybody pretending they would have stopped if given a stern talking to is just deluded. A punishment has to have some deterrent value also and these silly girls have performed such "art" on many an occasion. This simply is not a simple, unintentional act.

so, let's get this straight, chicken episode was performed by SPb branch of "voina", right? not Moscow one? and saying that PR performed that particular stunt is like saying that, say, Putin is a rapist, based on his association with United Russia and a fact that there were United Russia members sentenced for rape.

you sound like an aggressive LJ Navalny bot with that attitude, don't stoop to that level.

what do you mean? as far as i know, Navalny is a religious person so we really on the different sides here.

[G-AWZT]

Seriously WTF are these FEMEN doing? Hey lets slap those who are religious in the face......yeah really brave......it really wins me over to their point of view.....not.

[barakelde]

Dude. Get a clue. When determining a sentence, a court takes into account other acts of the person accused. If you stole a car before in your life it can and would be used in a trial on maybe robbing something. Do you really not get it??? You really do not get that all these stunts connect into something else? Is that really so hard to comprehend???

Here is the text of the Court Verdict (in Russian)
http://www.snob.ru/selected/entry/51999.
Not a single reference to the museum/chicken act.

Here is the text of the Prosecution's Charge Sheet (Обвинительное заключение). In Russian.
http://www.novayagazeta.ru/society/53602.html
Again, not a single reference to the museum/chicken act.

During the court the chicken/museum act has not been brought up, If I remember correctly. If it was, please enlighten me as to where and under what circumstances. And even if it was brought up, the court decided that it was not relevant and did not refer to it in its Verdict.
From a legal point of view the museum/chicken thing did not happen. There was no court, no hearing, no guilty verdict. Didn't happen.

To sum it up, the prosecution did not think it was relevant, the plaintiffs did not think it was relevant, even the judge of the kangaroo court did not think it was relevant. The only person who thinks that the museum/chicken thing are somehow relevant is you, my friend. You can't justify a court's verdict by bringing up things that are not merits of the case.

And they called bowing people bi**es and such crap

How good is your Russian? Because what you claim is absolute bull****. They never called bowing people "bitches"
Черная ряса, золотые погоны
Все прихожане ползут на поклоны
Призрак свободы на небесах
Гей-прайд отправлен в Сибирь в кандалах
...
Патриарх Гундяй верит в Путина
Лучше бы в Бога, сука, верил
Пояс девы не заменит митингов -
На протестах с нами Приснодева Мария!

PR did use "сука" in their Cathedral video, but it was used as an interjection and only in reference to Mr. Gundyaev's behaviour. It could be argued that it was used in a reference to Mr. Gundyaev himslef, but so what? It was done only after Gundyaev voiced open support for Mr. Putin during presidential elections. Church either stays out of politics, or it becomes fair game. You can't have it both ways.

[Holycrusader]

PR did use "сука" in their Cathedral video, but it was used as an interjection and only in reference to Mr. Gundyaev's behaviour. It could be argued that it was used in a reference to Mr. Gundyaev himslef, but so what? It was done only after Gundyaev voiced open support for Mr. Putin during presidential elections. Church either stays out of politics, or it becomes fair game. You can't have it both ways.

Im pretty sure If PR will do this in Bishkek mosque, they will get flowers from faithfouls and pat on they back from law and order forces...

[Xaito]

what do you mean, who do i think i am? i am a person born and raised in USSR, and got an education based on critical thinking and scientific methods. last few weeks i read a lot of hate speeches from my religiously oriented compatriots. people, who really believe that if you don't share their point of view, then you are agent of the West or possessed by daemon (besnovaty). while in the West that sort of behaviour deemed excentric and bizarre, in our lands it become rather a commonity. that's 21st century in Russia. so i more and more inclined to believe that only sick mind hav need for spiritual crutches. i have respect for religious persons who really live according to your faith commandments and open-minded in general, however, more i interact with modern day "faithful", more "monkeys" associations comes to mind.

You're arrogant and presumptuous - you really remind me more and more of this particular picture:


Everybody is stupid, but you're really smart and pretty, aren't you?
Smells like midlife crisis, mr. intellectual.
I'm atheist but I've had several religious people in my family to whom going to church and their faith was an important part of their life. They did not judge other people like you do and never called for anybody to be burned. It's because of people like them that stunts like the recent one are wrong period. In general elderly people can't even protect themselves from such encroachments by people who think they can get away with it. Elderly, just like children should be protected by us instead of us abusing their weakness in such a shameless way - this goes especially for people who need their "spiritual crutch" - you wouldn't think of taking away a sick person's medicine. Why didn't Pussy Riot choose a biker meeting to do their stunt? You know, those guys Putin hangs out with on TV would be perfect. Because they can defend themselves and their beliefs and the average people visiting church cannot. What will they do next if left allone? Attack kindergarten kids?

[barakelde]

Im pretty sure If PR will do this in Bishkek mosque, they will get flowers from faithfouls and pat on they back from law and order forces...

Kyrgyz are probably one of the least hardcore Muslims in the world
I'd describe an average Kyrgyz as a Friday-muslim only.
And if some punk band did something similar in the Bishkek Central Mosque, targetting, say, our Premier Babanov and the head of our Spiritual Directorate (Духовное управление мусульман Кыргызстана), half the country would've applauded them. And in case the girls were ever detained, our opposition* would've bailed them out and used them in their crusade against the Premier and the head muslim guy.
__________
*Unlike Russia, we do actually have a pluralistic parliament. Of course, our parliament, as well as the pravitelstvo and the opposition is mostly zhuliks and vors, just like in Russia, but at least the debates in the parliament have become exciting.

[asch]

You're arrogant and presumptuous - you really remind me more and more of this particular picture:
Everybody is stupid, but you're really smart and pretty, aren't you?
Smells like midlife crisis, mr. intellectual.
I'm atheist but I've had several religious people in my family to whom going to church and their faith was an important part of their life. They did not judge other people like you do and never called for anybody to be burned. It's because of people like them that stunts like the recent one are wrong period. In general elderly people can't even protect themselves from such encroachments by people who think they can get away with it. Elderly, just like children should be protected by us instead of us abusing their weakness in such a shameless way - this goes especially for people who need their "spiritual crutch" - you wouldn't think of taking away a sick person's medicine. Why didn't Pussy Riot choose a biker meeting to do their stunt? You know, those guys Putin hangs out with on TV would be perfect. Because they can defend themselves and their beliefs and the average people visiting church cannot. What will they do next if left allone? Attack kindergarten kids?

why so butthurt? as i said,

i have respect for religious persons who really live according to your faith commandments and open-minded in general

so fuckin chill a bit, i don't mind your religious people.
anyway, novodvorskaya is no more diusgusting than this self-righteous douchebag wearing his father's medals.


i don't say i'm uber-smart. just more adult than majority of posters. few years ago i was your typical Putin hailing potsreot, so with 2005 version of me you could get along very well. but then, come experience and maturity.

[Xaito]

why so butthurt? as i said,

so fuckin chill a bit, i don't mind your religious people.

Did Pussy Riot make sure there were only the kind of religious people at church you don't like or do you consider them collateral damage?
They had no business attacking elderly people in a church, no need to badmouth a portion of religious people - it doesn't change the matter at hand.

anyway, novodvorskaya is no more diusgusting than this self-righteous douchebag wearing his father's medals.

Agreed.
1. Was this guy and his buddies attacked by PR or were it people minding their own business in a church?
2. Novodvorskaya is no more disgusting but not much less either - don't be like her, for all our sanity's sake, please.

don't say i'm uber-smart. just more adult than majority of posters. few years ago i was your typical Putin hailing potsreot, so with 2005 version of me you could get along very well. but then, come experience and maturity.

I could get along with you just fine if you'd tone down your smugness. Come down from the high horse and we can talk eye to eye. I am no Putin fanboy and I don't expect other people to be. I just don't see the need to go to extremes "either with us or against us" and I'm somewhat allergic to defeatism.

[asch]

Did Pussy Riot make sure there were only the kind of religious people at church you don't like or do you consider them collateral damage?
They had no business attacking elderly people in a church, no need to badmouth a portion of religious people - it doesn't change the matter at hand.

guards, trader, professional victim and some dude who just seen their flick on YouTube. that's a list of victims, no congregation there.

I could get along with you just fine if you'd tone down your smugness. Come down from the high horse and we can talk eye to eye. I am no Putin fanboy and I don't expect other people to be. I just don't see the need to go to extremes "either with us or against us" and I'm somewhat allergic to defeatism.

alright.

[Xaito]

guards, trader, professional victim and some dude who just seen their flick on YouTube. that's a list of victims, no congregation there.

If this didn't happen during liturgy it changes some things. At least in my mind. It's still a ****-move, but to a different degree.

[asch]

If this didn't happen during liturgy it changes some things. At least in my mind. It's still a ****-move, but to a different degree.

this didn't happened during liturgy. no liturgy, no ministering or any clerical duty. it was repeatedly stressed during process, hell, it's even in wiki.
take a labor of reading court verdict and charge sheet.