WP use against German Tanks, ETO, 1944-1945
I've read that U.S. Sherman tank crews, when faced with superior German tanks, would often fire white phosphorous (WP) shells at the German tanks because the Americans knew their AP shells were useless, but the smoke and fumes from WP would get sucked into German tanks and force them to die or abandon the tank.
I'm writing a novel that might or might not involve such a situation. I'll give credit where it's due.
James, take a look at the paragraph The 75mm Main Gun for an alternate explanation of that scenario. http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor...sp?armor_id=40 I don't know how good the source is, but if what they're saying there is true you might be able to find it if you can get ahold of some of those AAR's they spoke of.
Are you asking if someone can verify this information or point to someone who could?Originally Posted by James
Edit -
I'd like to know if anyone else has knowledge of such. I can't even remember what source I read, but it was only one. Even though I'm writing fiction, I like present reality.
Last edited by James; 07-29-2012 at 10:28 PM.
PM send because of E-Mail address
Might be worth signing up to the Missing Lynx discussion boards. It may've begun life as a modeller's research site but these days it's also got a lot of historians, archivists and veterans who'll be able to offer the definitive answer or show you the original source material.
Here's a good place to start.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47208...+105mm+Sherman
I read it. Interesting, i wasn't aware of that tactic. Thanks for the link (and thanks to James for opening the thread).
While the tactic sounds a bit "last hope one", it could have been effective indeed on Zimmerit layers
WP can be very effective as an obscurant to vehicle crews, and WP M64 probably among the best choices in that it stays in place and continues to burn as long at it has fuel. a Closed down tank already is blind to within 25M usually and now you made it that much worse. Add to that fumes and any particulates that work past the Mantlet and yeah you can see why a crew would want to unass quickly. the M3 75mm Gun was quite effective on the Bulk of the Panzerwaffe which was PzKpFw IV and Stug III/IV. Where it fell was in pentrating the Panther and Tiger Series.
M46 HE could not penetrate the Panther/Tiger at any range. With exceeding luck it might set off a sympathetic detonation of stored rounds but so rare as to be not worth the effort.
M61 APC shot will not penetrate the glacis of the Panther @200m. It will penetrate side/rear @ up to 1500M (as would the 57mm M86 APC round)
Good info, thanks. Do you know if WP was available in 57mm or 37mm? I'll check it out too. As it's written in my novel so far, the heaviest vehicle my Americans are using is an M-8 Greyhound.WP can be very effective as an obscurant to vehicle crews, and WP M64 probably among the best choices in that it stays in place and continues to burn as long at it has fuel. a Closed down tank already is blind to within 25M usually and now you made it that much worse. Add to that fumes and any particulates that work past the Mantlet and yeah you can see why a crew would want to unass quickly. the M3 75mm Gun was quite effective on the Bulk of the Panzerwaffe which was PzKpFw IV and Stug III/IV. Where it fell was in pentrating the Panther and Tiger Series.
NO WP ammo for either the 37 or 57. Mostly AP, and Canister types. Nor for the 76mm, 3" either. The 90mm did have one as obviously did the 105mm
37mm ammo used
M2 Canister-122 steel balls
M63 HE 39g TNT filler
M74 AP-T shot
M51 APCBC-T
WP is some bad azz stuff.
Oh Hey just a thought, the US would have had the M15 WP Hand Grenade and the 2.36" Bazooka had a M10 WP rocket
http://www.designation-systems.info/.../m6rocket.html
http://www.lexpev.nl/grenades/americ...15smokewp.html
Thanks man. I wrote a scene in which a captured Panzerfaust + WP grenade = kaboom for a Jagdpanther. Blew it down to the tracks.
Does anyone have knowledge of the ventilation systems of WWII German armored vehicles? This is related to my initial post - was it common for WP smoke to cause German crews to abandon otherwise functioning AFVs?
I'm sure you've heard of it, but Soviet partisans made use of Molotov cocktails against German AFV's. The smoke, and even sometimes the burning liquid fuel would seep into the seems of the vehicles, especially the engine compartment vents for the radiators etc. if the vehicles were sealed up. I assume that WP would work the same way, if not better because of its high pyrotechnic temperature. I have a book from an ex Soviet partisan, I don't remember the name of it at the moment, but if I can find it I'll post it here.
Hope this helped.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
