Reply With QuoteThe Bahamas cleans everyones' clocks by a long way. It's not even close. They've been at the top of the table at every summer games since 1992, save for 1996 when they were second to Tonga.Originally Posted by Corrupt
Except they're not near the bottom. They're in the top half of countries on medals per capita. Just behind most other "Western" countries.
We smaller nations just like to point out that we punch above our weight despite the US leading the medals table on pure numbers.
Seems to be Australia. The only country with over 10 million population in the top twenty. 1 medal per 497k population. The first with over 50 million is GB at 1 medal per 1.3 million population.If you're into math or economics, there's probably a optimal population figure, given the number of sports and their qualification quotas, to 'dominate' the medals by population table.
Interestingly if we do medals by GDP the US falls to 74th and Zimbabwe rises to the top
The Bahamas cleans everyones' clocks by a long way. It's not even close. They've been at the top of the table at every summer games since 1992, save for 1996 when they were second to Tonga.
We could do another figure: one based on where athletes live and train rather than what country they parade into the stadium with.We smaller nations just like to point out that we punch above our weight despite the US leading the medals table on pure numbers.
There's a huge contingent of foreign athletes that live and train in the US.
I'd like someone (ie not a Kiwi with a blog) to do some serious maths on it actually. For example, despite similar sized populations, the Italians tend to finish slightly behind the French on total medal count, consistantly. The Cubans tend to finish around 10th despite a comparatively small population. The Australians always do very well for their national size. Apart from 2008 Britain tends to come behind the other major European nations. There must be some formula involving population, GDP, and a number derived from sports particularly big at your country.
Does that mean we can claim the Lithuanian gold medallist who trains in Plymouth?We could do another figure: one based on where athletes live and train rather than what country they parade into the stadium with.
There's a huge contingent of foreign athletes that live and train in the US.
He/she is all yours.
Athletics Policy (money, prospects, selection), Historic references (Historic sports), Athletic structures (the US head and shoulders above Cuba and it shows), types of population, Athletic appeal. You pick.
http://www.topendsports.com/events/s...arison-pop.htm
Does that include the Swiss with their triple medalist in "applied graphics"?
This is North Korean conditions, minus the bullet to the back of the head and the whole family going to labor camp never to be seen again if they lose obviously.
Got to take you to the woodshed again.
The IOC itself had stated that all Olympic athletes had to be of amateur status until 1971 when they allowed athletes to receive compensation for training which included for the first time sponsorships from sport, national or corporate organziations but the US would only allow athletes of amateur status to compete until 1978 when the Ted Stevens Act was passed which gave US athletes access to all of the above for the first time BUT NO GOVERNMENT FUNDING WAS ALLOWED.
Then in 1986 the IOC allowed amateurs AND professional athletes to compete
In the US college athletes are classified as amateur status that's a fact deal with it. That's why you didn't see the US fielding Olympic basketball and hockey teams with players from the NBA and NHL until the IOC allowed pros to compete in 1986 and then the US basketball team fielded the famous Dream Team in basketball in 1992 which took on all nations at the same time in one game and stomped all over them 45,2149 to 26.
So what if US athletes had sponsors in the 20's if they were classed as pros then the IOC wouldn't let them compete until 1986.
Once again you read what you didn't see. I didn't say the Nazi's doped up they used the Olympics to make a political statement and so did the Communist bloc but the Commies were the biggest dopers and you have the nerve to say the Communist Bloc weren't the biggest because it was crude? HELL THEY PIONEERED IT.
The East German's headed by Manfred Ewald and the Stasi were giving their athletes steroids and hormones in the 1970's they were recruiting females as young as 12 for their swim team and without their knowledge were given roids and male hormones and a version of testosterone. All this was confirmed when Stasi documents were revealed in to 1990's and in 2010 Michael Kalinski a former top Soviet sports scientist started to reveal the state sponsored doping program for the former USSR.
Oh wow so Thomas Hicks took a couple of shots of of strychnine/brandy during the 1904 Olympic marathon the Olympic officials knew about it and it was legal besides it didn't help him win. Fred Loz crossed the finish line first but that because 9 miles into the race he jumped in a car and drove most of the way until he reached the 5 miles to go mark and then jumped back in the race to cross first. He was disqualified of course.
The fact that the US athletes rely on a private funding does not change much on the issue. Actually it makes that worse. Why? Well in the early 20th century many athletes were militay personnel. To which the Athletic occupation was indeed a hobby (as they were paid first and foremost to soldier). That is in the very core of the issue what and amateur should be. The US college system has established a privately funded tuition system that enrolls people in curriculums to have them compete first and foremost. IE the sport is the central part of their curriculum, not the study. While they do not get paid to play, they get paid to train. It is a wonderful loophole that the US created first and foremost.
The IOC itself had stated that all Olympic athletes had to be of amateur status until 1971 when they allowed athletes to receive compensation for training which included for the first time sponsorships from sport, national or corporate organziations but the US would only allow athletes of amateur status to compete until 1978 when the Ted Stevens Act was passed which gave US athletes access to all of the above for the first time BUT NO GOVERNMENT FUNDING WAS ALLOWED.
Then in 1986 the IOC allowed amateurs AND professional athletes to compete
In the US college athletes are classified as amateur status that's a fact deal with it. That's why you didn't see the US fielding Olympic basketball and hockey teams with players from the NBA and NHL until the IOC allowed pros to compete in 1986 and then the US basketball team fielded the famous Dream Team in basketball in 1992 which took on all nations at the same time in one game and stomped all over them 45,2149 to 26.
So what if US athletes had sponsors in the 20's if they were classed as pros then the IOC wouldn't let them compete until 1986.
Once again you read what you didn't see. I didn't say the Nazi's doped up they used the Olympics to make a political statement and so did the Communist bloc but the Commies were the biggest dopers and you have the nerve to say the Communist Bloc weren't the biggest because it was crude? HELL THEY PIONEERED IT.
The East German's headed by Manfred Ewald and the Stasi were giving their athletes steroids and hormones in the 1970's they were recruiting females as young as 12 for their swim team and without their knowledge were given roids and male hormones and a version of testosterone. All this was confirmed when Stasi documents were revealed in to 1990's and in 2010 Michael Kalinski a former top Soviet sports scientist started to reveal the state sponsored doping program for the former USSR.
Oh wow so Thomas Hicks took a couple of shots of of strychnine/brandy during the 1904 Olympic marathon the Olympic officials knew about it and it was legal besides it didn't help him win. Fred Loz crossed the finish line first but that because 9 miles into the race he jumped in a car and drove most of the way until he reached the 5 miles to go mark and then jumped back in the race to cross first. He was disqualified of course.
So you really do not get the crux of the argument...sure thing you being all USA x3. Being government funded is not being a professional if the athlete does not get paid for running. As a matter of fact Soviets that won meetings never collected their earnings. That was recovered by the UCFCS who in return reinvested into the those VSS that participated with athletes. They were amateurs and had, in comparison with the US atheletes, far less time to train and work out and far less structures (for instance motion analysis by camera as done by the US Olympic Swimming team did not reached the USSR until 1988. The US had been toying with that since the late 60s.
The case in point of US blatant disregard for rules would be two of the pioneer swimmers. The Duke and Johnny Weissmuller. Weissmuller forged his documents (foreign born) in order participate in the Olympics and the Duke was a life guard and a Swiming teacher. Those two were icons of their time.
We will not go thorugh with the Steroids used on US weighlifters, Sprinters and Wrestlers. We will not even contemplate Meta-amphetamine use, nor will we speak about the general abuse in sports of many benign drugs (Ventolin and co) or even of the high percentage of Asmathics in sports.
Again the structures in the US are far from being amateurish. To the contrary, we see professional European trainers and athletes being enrolled in a way or another in various US colleges. That tells me far more about *amateurism* than the silly rant about not being government funded. But as said, you do not get the point, no need to go further.
On the Nazi politisation of the games...Hello? pardon my French but :
*The sports have blossomed all the qualities that serve in war: light-heartedness, good mood, adapting to the unforseen, exact notion of the needed effort without uselessly spending forces.* Pierre de Coubertin. From the get go, the Olympics were a political affair and even the Founder knew it. Now please can you just tone down with the bollocks.Les sports ont fait fleurir toutes les qualités qui servent a la guerre: insouciance, belle-humeur, accoutumance a l'imprévu, notion exacte de l'effort à faire sans dépenser des forces inutiles.
You talk about
The Commbloc pioneering doping? I do not know, for instance take cycling. Doped to the bone, like 40 years before any USSR athlete would set foot in any Olympiad. But in the same time, US WADA whitewashed olympic champions (Jones and Co.) despite they were doped ad nauseam. How many cases did we not witnessed with the US track and field. Hell all sports in the US are rotten to the bone with doping. It is in the damn structure.
I will take Al Davis words for it. *If you ain´t cheaing, you ain´t trying*.
EDit: Thomas hicks used a PED, that being allowed and all does not change anything. The argument was using PEDs, not that being allowed. The very fact his coach had strychnine with him, shows way more than you´d ever understand.
Last edited by KoTeMoRe; 08-03-2012 at 08:50 AM.
"Founder" knew what? He just listed personal qualities which make people excel (from his pov) in war and in sport. Please tell what is so "political" here?
Olimpic games became political business in 1936. And even after it was considered "political" only by a few countries.
Your point about college sport is simply irrelevant here. American universities were collecting sportsmen not for Olympic games, but to participate in "D&ck contests" i.e. zillion of college tournaments, leagues and championships which give points to universities' "ranks". It was and remains an internal "american only" thing.
Founder´s views were utterly political. He was trying to have a national competition substitute open war...the analogies with war, politics and social engineering were rife in Coubertin´s statements.
... Once you miss the point. The athletes that stem from these Universities go on to participate on Olympic endeavours. As a matter of fact, college athletic developpment pioneer and foster Olympic hopefuls and much as professional sportsmen. It is the monetization of lower divisions in Europe by sport. While the US makes them compete among colleges, the results are a specific professional infrastructure and support, that many Porfessional Athletes and players elsewhere DO NOT have. As such claiming the US does not do that for the Olympics, when they are BY FAR the most successful Nation in the Olympics, seems a bit far fetched. It has nothing to do with **** contests, that would be insulting the US efforts. It is simply another form of organizing both a social scheme of integration and a sportive scheme of fostering professional athletes without having to rely on public funding. Just a different approach to sporting.
The games become Politic only in 1936...every time I read you, deep down inside I know what failed back in the time. The games first political approach was taken even before the games were even financed. Certain federations insisted that some classes of people could NOT participate in the Olympics. Coubertin´s views were that the most well off classes were the ones that could express the best the potential of amateurism, far from the villany of the lower classes. The Idea that the Olympic games were not seen as a formidable political tool, is so to say, shortsighted.
Furthermore, Greeks transformed the victory of Spiridon Louis in a clear Pan-Hellenic statement. In 1908...Finland participated out of the Russian Empire. In 1920 Budapest was striped of its hosting rights, Germany was not Invited. in 1924 they were still NOT invited. We will not indulge in the Scandinavian bickering around the 1932 games. As such even in the 1936 games. The US stated that it wold boycott the games. Hell there were US athletes campaigning to boycott the games IN GERMANY. Now what? Who is who?
Plenty of politization in the games, just you being ill-informed (as usual).
Blah, blah, blah geez you talk a lot and say little and with one sentence from your long winded ill informed rant I will make you look like a fool again.
Al Davis said "Just Win Baby". "If you ain't cheatin' you ain't trying." Comes from NASCAR.
Now you look like you really don't know what you're talking about.
Good night from me who has followed the NFL and NASCAR for over 30 years.
I have never followed Nascar and am relatively new at the NFL (ah ah you lack SA, should get a look at the NFL threads) but even I know what Al Davis said, I know also what he did...Blah, blah, blah geez you talk a lot and say little and with one sentence from your long winded ill informed rant I will make you look like a fool again.
Al Davis said "Just Win Baby". "If you ain't cheatin' you ain't trying." Comes from NASCAR.
Now you look like you really don't know what you're talking about.
Good night from me who has followed the NFL and NASCAR for over 30 years.
And he did just that...
Now making me look like a fool would be explaining me how being paid to train, is not being a professional athlete...
Posting Permissions
