Reply With QuoteOnly because George Bush said so!Originally Posted by Navel Lint
Well you said routine.
Anyway, threats are becoming more serious and prevalent.
Only because George Bush said so!
Gee you'da **** yourself in 2003 then. My entire Infantry Squad armed with M16A4's with magazines and ammo, IBA, and MOLLE, Promask and Kpots, bayonets on duty in the NYC Subways. We worked out of Transit District #4 Canal Street with Our Cop and my squad had City Hall Station. 200 of us per shift augmenting the NYPD for 3 weeks 24/7(I had 2000-0400).
Funny No one ran from us, no one was terrified to talk to us, far from it.
To be fair though the thread is about overall militarization of police not US specific (I think) so while Americans might be comfortable with such things, People elsewhere might be somewhat more alarmed by such a development. Likewise indeed the overall 'security' situation I guess has to be considered as having any effect... If people are in a high state of alert it might be considered more acceptable to some to see Police and indeed Military out and about in force with arms, in a comparatively quiet area by comparison a policeman roaming the streets Carbine in hand might be a little more alarming, its all about context I think
Overall though that post of yours does bring in an interesting insight!
By the way a helmet, has more uses than just stopping bullets, it also offers protection from shrapnel & debris thrown by an explosion, attack to the head by iron bar, baseball bat, etc.. etc.. best place for it to be is on the head and not hanging from a belt, where it will be too late in case of attack, and I would further say these guys are deployed as a counter-measure to a potential terrorist attack rather than stopping pick-pockets.
Connaught Ranger.
Come to New Delhi, get on our subway system, get an involuntary TSA like pat down and free x-ray of your bag from the militia every time you buy a ticket. That system is in place from day one and nobody complains about it post Mumbai attacks, where the on duty policemen were unable to do anything due to lack of training, protection and a semi decent weapon. There usually a dozen militia present on every station and Mumbai's new metro rail and mono rail will get the same level of security. I do not see anything wrong in growing militarization of police because the threats they deal with are evolving. The preferred mode of operation of terrorists has shifted from taking hostages to going on a killing spree and I do not see anything wrong if the police evolve to give their first responders a little more training and tools to deal with such a situation.
Although I must admit, Vz-58, Insas and FALs are too powerful for the job, but they are the standard issue weapons of militia and only a few units are equipped with mp-5.
^^ i rember watching cctv of those attacks in train station,poor buggers were using bolt action rifles....& even threw chairs at the attackers.
Yep, those were your regular samosa eating cops, posted there to catch an odd pick pocket, find a missing child, basic crowd control and stuff like that. It was probably the first time in their career when they actually had to use their guns. Major cities with regular terror threats and high rates of street or organised crime, need a wee bit of 'militarization' to deal with odd situations.
Well I remember in Europe being at first surprised to see cops carrying submachineguns back in the 1980's as US beat cops didnt then or now carry such weapons, but I also noticed no one except the Americans fresh from the states gave them a second look. Baton, Handgun, Submachinegun, so suddenly cargo pockets make the civpop recoil in horror? I was amazed at the MAT-49's and MP-5's
CRS and Gendarmerie would carry primarily the AMD and MAT. Hardly *normal* Police and the Gendarmerie was a military force within the territory so no real surprise.
July 18, 1952 Bill Purdom and Warren Lee, United Press photographers protecting themselves with police riot gear as communists waged violent protests in Tokyo Japan.
Even the Japanese Police in 1958 had access to military helmets, cute shields and big sticks.
Connaught Ranger.
Since when was Grenfell "Sydney" considering it's 5 bloody hours away? Those blokes aren't wearing armour either nor are they carrying long arms...making them distinctly different from the NYPD and ADF images you posted. I hardly see NSWPF general duties or highway patrol blokes as "intimidating" to the public because they have cargo pants and a fleece jacket.Other then people who have a keen interest in military IE the people that use this forum for example do honestly think the public would be able to differentiate between
These guys (army)
Police Sydney
That observation is a wee bit odd in view of the posting history of this very thread were the criticism on the "growing militarization" of civilian law enforcement was mostly passed by Americans. Heavily armed police is a fairly common sight in many parts of the Western world and few people seem to mind it.
I maintain my previous statement that a citizen should be watchful of the competences of their police forces and not of what they wear. I agree with BiZ and others that it's ridiculous to voice concerns about cargo pants or BDUs on police officers, and might I add it's almost criminal stupidity to consider that a "growing militarization" while talking about competences not once. I know I know eternal vigilance is the price of freedom and all that but when you live in a country that's been a democracy for centuries you shouldn't be afraid of a goddamn pair of pants.
The question is where in Europe ?Well I remember in Europe being at first surprised to see cops carrying submachineguns back in the 1980's as US beat cops didnt then or now carry such weapons, but I also noticed no one except the Americans fresh from the states gave them a second look. Baton, Handgun, Submachinegun, so suddenly cargo pockets make the civpop recoil in horror? I was amazed at the MAT-49's and MP-5's
Actually (at least in France) the only cops bearing SMG are those on static guard at sensitive areas (embassies, some jewish schools or synagogues....), often a beretta/benelli SMG or MAT49 (well this one not anymore). This is never issued to common patrolmen you have on streets.
Gendarmes mobiles were more likely to appear with FAMAS they used as CS grenade launchers before they were issued individual GL
CRS had also MAS49/56 with tromblons (trsl ?) they used also in CC actions
But Gendarmes is a "military police" unit and CRS is a true paramilitary unit focused on Crowd control ops.
And basically outside CC events they are all helmet down, body armor down and tactical jacket down making them look more like regular cops when in regular cops duties
And just to come back on the beginning pages where it was subjested to equip all regular cops with SMGs or even AR, i guess that the recent event in NY is an example of what could go wrong with regular patrolmen issued with a 25-30 mag semi auto/full auto weapon
You should read up on the bombings and such that occurred with somewhat regular frequency in Europe during the 80's.
There were multiple competing groups cooking off bombs like a fireworks show for a good chunk of the 80's.
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