MIT betrays CIA, deceived by SAVAK
MIT - Turkish National Intelligence Organization
SAVAK - now called VIVAK, Ministry of Intelligence and National Security of Iran
Both countries don't have FBI/CIA style separation of domestic/foreign affairs , so their intelligence agencies cover both areas .
Turkey shared its intelligence data with Syria and Iran in a hope that the two will share its intel on Kurdish rebels movements along Turkish borders. All this changed with the installation of US AN/TPY-2 radar close to Iranian border and Syrian civil war.
http://www.todayszaman.com/columnist-289810-mit-betrays-cia-deceived-by-savak.html
The year 2012....Turkish MIT invented a time machine and gathered intel on the in the 1970's yet to be founded PKK with the help of the SAVAK...the intelligence service of the Shah Monarchy.Take that NSA nerds!
PS: And the moral of the story? Don't trust Islamist sources....
PPS: why I have problems surfing MP.net with Opera?
SAVAK - VIVAK issue is mentioned in the OP. I haven't found the original in Turkish to check if 'SAVAK' comes from the source or it's just a miss-translation to English.Originally Posted by BorisA
Anyway, the fact of US sharing intel with Turkey and Turkey sharing intel with Iran isn't a secret :
http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...orth-iraq.htmlOct. 21 , 2011 Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu and his Iranian counterpart agreed on joint operations to combat terrorism after Turkey sent troops into northern Iraq to fight the Kurdistan Workers Party, or PKK.
Also in the Turkish original he uses SAVAK....speaks for the credibility of the author on the issue. Furthermore his choice of words is unacceptable. And I do not see how it is possible to scandalize such cooperation if Turkish national security is concerned, especially if we remember how long the US neglected or even ignored, for the sake of some unlikely gains with the Iraqi Kurds, the needs of an old ally. Turkey should seek every chance to harm domestic terrorists, if its with the blessing / support of the US or not. It speaks volumes, that the US restricts the sale of UAV's to Turkey. And this all could have been avoided (especially the deeper intelligence ties between Turkey and Iran) if the US had supported Turkey on the issue far sooner. However, just US security concerns are valid, the rest is neglectable. I really hope that someday Turkish leaders take the same stance for their own country...
Hakan Fidan looking like epic fail this is fact but Emre Uslu = same **** with Debka.
So what? Just because Turkey pleases what's mainly of the west's interests against a potential eastern (read: Iranian/Syrian) attack by high-level strategic co-operations, radar shields, etc., she should not be able to think of her own security against what's a bigger and more actual enemy to her (read: PKK)? BS.
Couldn't have put it better myself.
I use Opera as well and have no problems surfing this site with it.
IIRC US gave Turkey a green light to establish security belt in Northern Iraq under condition of Turkish permission to use US bases on Turkish soil in a war in Iraq.
Turkey refused , so to speak 'neglected or even ignored' security needs of an old ally. So it's hardly surprising that US pays with the same coin dealing with Iraqi Kurds. You know, bilateral relations are two-way street.
Sharing intel obtained with the help of US with the likes of Iran and Syria will surely take its price too.
At the end it all comes to the question of picking a side to side with, cause in so polarized situation no one could enjoy the benefits from the both worlds.
AKP driven attempt to enjoy from both worlds lead to the situation when US is pissed off about sharing of its intel with enemy states (Syria, Iran) and Iran is pissed off at US radar and Turkish open support of FSA in Syria.
The struggle against the PKK started not in 2003 but in the 80's. Turkey "neglected or even ignored" an old ally by not participating at an unjust operation against a fictional nuclear threat? A war that resulted in huge Turkish trade losses, the increased OPEN presence of PKK terrorist forces in N.Iraq (btw. Turkey already had BEFORE Operation Iraqi Freedom a security buffer in N.Iraq) and a higher risk for the lifes of Turkish citiziens as Turkey IS, unlike the US, a direct neighbour of Iraq. I do not know how many Turkish citizens died through the better structure the PKK obtained through the new power constellation in N.Iraq with a local government which does NOTHING against the terror organization on its soil....your new kurdish allies are a shining beacon of security. So the next time when talking about betrayal get your facts right. You know, bilateral relations are a two-way street... and the US fvcked up in regards to Turkey way before the AKP. When the US consequently pulls the "America-first" card without ANY consideration of other states, especially allies, she should not wonder if other states adopt the same stance...And these "enemy" states do not (or in the Syrian case did not for a long time) threaten the territorial integrity of Turkey. Unlike US supported kurdish "rebels" and "freedom fighters". And providing images (no material or software or codes...we are talking about IMAGES) of terrorist movements are not endangering the security of the US...or are they? How the destruction of terrorist structures and forces, mind you the PKK is listed also in the US as a terror organization, is harming the US?
Actually, you only recall a part of what happened, not all of it. There was a kurdo thread of 'either us or them, we will resist the Turkish presence in N.Iraq" to such US offer to Turkey. US simply did not want to risk their most usefull tool to get busy fighting the Turks instead of Saddam's forces. Turkish parliamentery of NO vote came after US's decision of pulling their offer back due to kurd threads.
These are important details which you should 'remember' too
On topic; Turkish/Iranian intel exchange against kurdish terrorists was when Iran was also fighting PJAK (PKK's Iranian wing) and it was limited to these operations.
TBH I've got no intention discussing history of US-Turkish relations since Trojan war. IMO Iraq war is as justified as Turkish raids over Northern Kurdistan. If Turkey bombs/occupies territory of another state as a response to its citizens' deaths, then US has the same right to bomb/occupy territory of another state as a response to 9.11.
Going back to OP: intelligence matters is a matter of trust.
MIT is under direct command of Turkish PM. You know, the same man that just 2 years ago was the best buddy of all anti-US "talking heads" from Morales and Chavez to Assad and Ahm-jad. Warm meetings and invitations to Istanbul to Hizbollah and Hamas leaders. The first one is directly responsible to deaths of 240 US marines , the second one response to OBL death was "We condemn the assassination and the killing of an Arab holy warrior".
The head of MIT is Hakan Fidan, a man personally appointed by Erdogan. Fidan's security achievements prior to appointment was being a deputy undersecretary at the Erdogan's Prime Ministry. This man is a frequent visitor to Iran ( probably personally handling IMAGES of PKK/PJAK bases to Iranians ). As Washington Post coins him : "Fidan is said to have close relations with Qassem Suleimani, who heads Iran’s Quds Force and is probably Khamenei’s closest adviser on security issues."
Even if I feel extremely stupid responding to such utter non-sense, I'll still do it since I like to finish my threads with a happy-end. Look pumpkin, even George W.Bush who was crying about Saddam,"'the guy who tried to kill my dad", stated that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11.TBH I've got no intention discussing history of US-Turkish relations since Trojan war. IMO Iraq war is as justified as Turkish raids over Northern Kurdistan. If Turkey bombs/occupies territory of another state as a response to its citizens' deaths, then US has the same right to bomb/occupy territory of another state as a response to 9.11. Going back to OP: intelligence matters is a matter of trust. MIT is under direct command of Turkish PM. You know, the same man that just 2 years ago was the best buddy of all anti-US "talking heads" from Morales and Chavez to Assad and Ahm-jad. Warm meetings and invitations to Istanbul to Hizbollah and Hamas leaders. The first one is directly responsible to deaths of 240 US marines , the second one response to OBL death was "We condemn the assassination and the killing of an Arab holy warrior". The head of MIT is Hakan Fidan, a man personally appointed by Erdogan. Fidan's security achievements prior to appointment was being a deputy undersecretary at the Erdogan's Prime Ministry. This man is a frequent visitor to Iran ( probably personally handling IMAGES of PKK/PJAK bases to Iranians ). As Washington Post coins him : "Fidan is said to have close relations with Qassem Suleimani, who heads Iran’s Quds Force and is probably Khamenei’s closest adviser on security issues."
Both sentences by G.W.Bush in 2006...three years after he tricked you into a war for non-existing nuclear WMD's and a never-existed Saddam-al-Qaeda-Axis. So no attack of Iraq against US-citizens and no WMD. So much for your legitimation to go into Iraq.First, just if I might correct a misperception, I don’t think we ever said — at least I know I didn’t say that there was a direct connection between September the 11th and Saddam Hussein.
(...)
Nothing.... Nobody has ever suggested that the attacks of September the 11th were ordered by Iraq.
http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archiv...0060320-7.html
http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archiv.../20060821.html
As for the imaginery-Chavez-Morales-Erdogan axis....well, let me tell you a secret...IT DOES NOT EXIST. Just because they have a common stance, i.e. the criticism against Israel's treatment of the Palestinian issue they do not become 1 tier allies...or did Turkey start an embargo against the US? Threw you out of Incirlik Airbase?Left NATO? Left Afghanistan? Closed the route for resupplying US Soldiers in Iraq? Delivered weapons to Hamas/Hezbollah/Taliban? Get your facts before writing....*** unbelievable that I have to respond to such non-sense.
As for Iran and Syria...these countries were/are important for Erdogans for 2 reasons... trade and struggle against the PKK. The common stance against Israel was a bonbon nothing else....maybe also a vehicle to push trade and renomee in the Arab world. However, these countries are our neighbours and we have to life with them...and as far as I remember the US also has no scruples to deal with China, a communist dictatorship which threatens US-allies from Japan, over S.Korea to the Philippines.
Finally, and I do not care if this Hakan Fidan spreads his legs or whatever for this Qassem Suleimani, as long as Turkey's security is covered. And please come again how sharing images of the movements of a terrorist groups (declared by the US!) is against US interests....
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