HELO Extract Under Heavy Taliban Fire

[FUNKER530]

[frostilicus]

First to all RIP to the SSGT Lucas.

Second, my deepest respect for all the Medevac crews.

Third, a reflection on this particular operation. It is perhaps inappropriate, use a heavy helicopter like this CH-53 to perform a hot extraction like this. In my humble opinion, and recalling unhappy preceding, in similar missions in Afghanistan, perhaps it would have been much more appropriate to use a Blackhawk that is much more maneuverable, and above all offers a much smaller target for a RPG shooter, than a big and less maneuverable CH-53?

[SBL]

^I imagine availability plays a significant factor in deciding on aircraft.

[frostilicus]

^I imagine availability plays a significant factor in deciding on aircraft.

That is absolutely true.
I just thought that this type of helicopter, not used to this kind of mission. I always think that seeing the power, and the amount of helicopters available for the U.S. Army, always use the right helicopter for the mission proper, and avoid unnecessary risks.
Helicopters, and especially, heavy helicopters, are still the Achilles heel of the combat mission in Afghanistan.


Sorry I can not express myself better in English

[yasotay]

One of the reasons they use the larger aircraft is that the smaller ones like the Blackhawk cannot lift the loads they were designed for because of the high altitude of Afghanistan. Also troops are carrying a lot more gear and ammo than they used to back in my air assault days

[StuRat]

That is absolutely true.
I just thought that this type of helicopter, not used to this kind of mission. I always think that seeing the power, and the amount of helicopters available for the U.S. Army, always use the right helicopter for the mission proper, and avoid unnecessary risks.
Helicopters, and especially, heavy helicopters, are still the Achilles heel of the combat mission in Afghanistan.


Sorry I can not express myself better in English

You have a habit of posting your opinion on stuff you don't know about.

Do you think that if they had a more suitable helo available, that they would use this one instead?

[dbamil]

Helicopters, and especially, heavy helicopters, are still the Achilles heel of the combat mission in Afghanistan.

Don't mean to pick a fight but I think the choppers are exactly why US is offering such low casualty (although a single casualty si too much). It's not the Achilles heel.

[bryanferreira]

First to all RIP to the SSGT Lucas.

Second, my deepest respect for all the Medevac crews.

Third, a reflection on this particular operation. It is perhaps inappropriate, use a heavy helicopter like this CH-53 to perform a hot extraction like this. In my humble opinion, and recalling unhappy preceding, in similar missions in Afghanistan, perhaps it would have been much more appropriate to use a Blackhawk that is much more maneuverable, and above all offers a much smaller target for a RPG shooter, than a big and less maneuverable CH-53?

Besides what others already said, CH53 have more firepower, a rear ramp that is easyer to load everything (people, wounded, vehicles,etc) and still be able to shoot sideways, and they can extract more people at one time, they have 3 engines (one can be shot that they still have power), that can have more armour, and probably something else that i can not remember right now.

When we don't know the all story we shoudn't judge so easely.

[bryanferreira]

Helicopters, and especially, heavy helicopters, are still the Achilles heel of the combat mission in Afghanistan.

I think you are absolutly wrong. Yes, Helis are a dangerous business but it wouldn't be possible to win this war without them.

They are the reason we put troops everywhere in the country or other way we would have to have a million soldiers there, they are the reason we extract so many wounded, they are the reason we put supplies when and where ever we want, etc etc

And heavy Helis go where no other go. Chinooks are the troops favourites for a reason...

[dbamil]

Slightly off topic but had enough UH-1 been available during the Korean War (like in Vietnam), the Chinese wouldn't have been so difficult to defend against. No choppers are not the the Achilles heel.

[frostilicus]

My main problem is not the lack of knowledge of this topic, my problem is that I do not know English.

If I knew English, could give very many arguments in favor of what I say.

But since you know so much about this topic, please answer these questions if possible:

In Afganistan, what percentage of MEDEVAC missions conducted by UH-60, and that the percentage of missions performed by CH-53 or CH-47? Could you tell me?

I recognize that refer to helicopters as the Achilles heel is wrong, the Apache provably must have killed hundreds (or thousands) of Taliban, and without the work of the helicopter logistics, this war would not be feasible...

However, how many special operations soldiers have died in combat, and how many have killed inside downed helicopter?

Another proof that what I say should not be so wrong....

After SEAL team six dead in crash, in this forum, many people wrote a lot, about the vulnerability of helicopters, even spoke to equip helicopters with the Trophy system, to destroy RPG rounds....


Of course, I write on this forum to learn from those who know more than me, any explanatory comment is appreciated, not so empty criticism.

[lt_rych]

I support you Hermano

[Martino]

..................

[Ratamacue]

In this case, being that it was an actual movement of a unit and not a MEDEVAC, this isn't an instance of "what was available at the time." The Marine Corps doesn't just use '53s as heavy lifters, but also as assault helos. They present the benefit that two of them can easily move a rifle platoon and whatever gear they're bringing (MV-22s can carry roughly the same number of troops, but are much more cramped inside), whereas it would probably take at least five Hueys to carry the same number of guys. This means that you don't need as large an LZ if landing all the helos simultaneously, or you'll require fewer trips in to the LZ if making multiple landings. And while '53s are big ass helos, they're a lot quicker and more maneuverable than you'd think (you wouldn't believe the speed with which I've seen some of them get in and out of an LZ--and the same for Ospreys too), and well armed with guns to both flanks and the rear.

[frostilicus]

In this case, being that it was an actual movement of a unit and not a MEDEVAC, this isn't an instance of "what was available at the time.

Then this changes everything.

Thank you for your explanation, and bring clarity and wisdom to topic, more interventions like yours are needed in this forum , instead of vacuum reproach.