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Thread: 12 F-16 MLU from Portugal to Romanian Air Force

  1. #1
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    Default 12 F-16 MLU from Portugal to Romanian Air Force

    Romania’s Supreme Defense Council approved today a plan to buy 12 used F-16 fighter jets from Portugal, Mediafax reported.
    The eastern European country is seeking to pay $600 million over five years for the aircraft, the Bucharest-based news service said, citing Defense Minister Corneliu Dobritoiu. The jets will be delivered from 2016, Mediafax said.
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...afax-says.html

  2. #2

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    I think it's ex-USAF Block 15 upgraded to Block 20 MLU, Portugal is not looking for new aircraft so they need their newer airframes in service. 600 million for 12 Vipers is similar cost to USA offer for 24 Block 25.
    Portugal received 20 new (build 1994) and 25 used Block 15 (build 1984), two were lost in accidents, 36 or more were upgraded to MLU, so Portugal will retain two squadrons of 12 aircraft each, while for Romania it doesn't solve mig-21 replacement problem, only indicates type they will operate. Just hope this one won't end up like the last '24 F-16 deal for Romania'.

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    Bad decision. Is this with sufficient spare parts and maintenance? You probably only get 10 to 15 years more out of these birds depending on the flight hours.

    The issues are only going to increase with time and will get exponentially higher towards the end of the frame life. If you have ever seen the amount of rework and patching on such a/c you'll wonder why they didn't go for the SAAB offer for 24 GRIPEN for 1,3 bill. That way they would have an acceptable number and an a/c sufficient capable for the next decades. This way they shove out 600 millions and God knows how much more for unprecedented issues, only to be in the same position again in 10 years.

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    I can not believe it ? No really the level of stupid behind this purchase is beyond me !

    Why did they not choose the Grippen ??

    Are these planes gonna be brought up to date ??

  5. #5

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    These aircraft should have about 4000 hours of service live left, so they will probably retire them around 2030... just in time to replace them with F-35 . Whether it's Viper or Gripen, Romania still needs 48, rather than 12 aircraft. Does it mean they want to start buying planes withdrawn from Denmark, Belgium or USA in near future to collect four squadrons... or even get them as aid?

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    The $600 million over five years will include the maintenance costs over their life time and bringing them back to fly status. Cost per actual frame supposed to be $10 million.

    Bad decision (!?), low number (!?), they should of went for Grippen (!?)... it does not even matter. It's just a CSAT (Romania’s Supreme Defense Council ) decision (like the previous US deal) and until a contract is sign I will still consider this deal as non-existing and the RoAF with one foot in the grave. Basically what I am saying: no matter how bad it looks, there is still a chance they will do even worst!

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    Senior Member BogT's Avatar
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    Just some data that were presented by the Romanian press (MoD declarations).

    The entire contact could cost 670 million euros. The 12 airframes cost 120 million euros, while the rest will go to logistics (lifetime costs). The F-16 will be Block 40 (probably after the upgrade?).
    Another 52 million euros will be spent on infrastructure and about 100 on weapons (thank god they remembered to buy weapons as well!).

    Some 12 LanceR's (one squadron) will be kept for now and another lot of 12 F-16 will be bought later to replace them (somehow, form countries that will retire them shortly, probably).

    The plan refers to ensuring Air Policing capability and train the pilots to use a 4th generation airframe as a transition to a 5th one. The longterm desire is to buy F-35 in the future (in 20-25 years). The Romanian MoD prefers F-16 now because the infrastructure with the F-35 would be the same.

    As a last note, I found this declaration (translated by me): "In worst case scenario, we will loose our jets. It's not a catastrophe, solutions can be found!"...he then references the Baltic countries scenario.
    In a later communicate, he refereed that the Baltic scenario would be "unacceptable" for Romania.
    http://www.agerpres.ro/media/index.p...oane-euro.html

  8. #8

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    This was pretty retarded... So they go for the lower performing alternative with higher up front and flight hour costs.

    Why pay more to get less? And what are the business offsets that Portugal (being broke) can offer?

    The only logic behind this is either that it is a bargaining chip or simple incompetence.
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  9. #9

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    It's pretty logical, If you know how the deals are made in this region. Some officials in Balkans get a lot of money under the table for such contracts.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by BogT View Post
    The Romanian MoD prefers F-16 now because the infrastructure with the F-35 would be the same.
    (...)
    [*******#333333]until a contract is sign I will still consider this deal as non-existing and the RoAF with one foot in the grave.[/COLOR]
    This argument is laughable. Not mentioning there was no competition for new or used fighters, now they want to point its replacement. I imagined RoAF will seize until 2020 some 48 F-16...but it's just 12 F-16 and 12 MiG-21 for now - both manufactured in 80s (eventually 24 F-16). It's still funeral mood.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Szarko32c View Post
    it doesn't solve mig-21 replacement problem, only indicates type they will operate.
    It solves part of it, Romania will have minimum number of aircrafts for AP missions.

    I do not expect them to buy anything more in near future. Mayby thay will extend use of Lancers in like 1 squadron.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by picanha the second View Post
    Bad decision. Is this with sufficient spare parts and maintenance? You probably only get 10 to 15 years more out of these birds depending on the flight hours.

    Shouldn't you have some knowledge before making such a call? Those F-16 have less than 3000 h on them, which leaves more than 5000 h to fly. This is 25 years flying 200 h a year.

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    So Romania pay 50 million $ for 30 years old plane to replace 40 years old planes? Why they don't return back their Mig-29, which is younger than those F-16 and have lot of hours in reserve, because they didn't fly for years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by medo View Post
    So Romania pay 50 million $ for 30 years old plane to replace 40 years old planes?
    Actually they pay 10 million euro per aircraft, the rest is service life cost and equipment... they decided it's better to have 12 F-16, insted of MiG-21 junkyard.

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    "The jets will be delivered from 2016"

    This is the stupid part.

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