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Thread: Chief of Finnish police suggest formation of home guards

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    Default Chief of Finnish police suggest formation of home guards

    Police Chief Mikko Paatero suggests in his blog, that home guards should be formed in Finland.


    According to him there has been good experience about them in United Kingdom.


    - There the volunteers of so called Neighborhood Watch patrol the streets, discuss with people and prevent crime.


    Home Guards would be especially useful in rural areas where arrival of police takes a long time.


    - This kind of community spirit and taking care of each other would fit in well in Finland. Especially in rural areas we need new kind of thinking. Name, neighborhood watch is a bit odd when its not about watching each other but about caring.


    At the end of his blog he is asking for name suggestion for the "volunteer assistance police" as he calls the home guard.

    http://www.iltasanomat.fi/kotimaa/ar...526974853.html

    I'm honestly a bit surprised, he is suggesting what our interior minister just shot down. Lefties everywhere are crying about formation of new Civil Guard.

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    Improving the training, equipment and mandate of already existing territorial forces would be more sensible than creating another set of units that would compete on resources and potential members.

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    Senior Member Piirka's Avatar
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    The politicians should just give the police enough funding to do their jobs. Companies have to rely on private security, people need to start protecting themselves, sounds like the force is already spread too thin. Military doing police work is not good. Volunteer force wouldn't be bad, if it didn't mean cutting from the police even more. Something like the volunteer fire brigades, but against crime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gumiman View Post
    Improving the training, equipment and mandate of already existing territorial forces would be more sensible than creating another set of units that would compete on resources and potential members.
    Territorial forces don't do that much training that they could not take part in both. I also think that its good that home guard could include members from more broader background, not only reservists.

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    What kind of authority would this Home Guard have according to the chief of police? Would they take on police matters in an early stage and would they be armed amongst civilians or is it just an auxiliary force to the regular forces?

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    He didn't specify, but they would most likely be unarmed civilians patrolling the streets. Not much different from what some civilians are already doing, but that way they would be organized.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gumiman View Post
    Oh, he meant an neighbourhood watch not an home guard.
    Yeah, just did literal translation from "kodinturvajoukot". Anyway, here is article in English:

    http://yle.fi/uutiset/top_cop_wants_...atrols/6429165

    "Especially in rural areas more eyes and ears are needed out in the field," Paatero says, adding that it is difficult to imagine that the Finnish police can get much more in the way of resources than is available today.
    The National Police Commissioner says that he could envision an auxiliary of volunteers who would wear some kind of uniform, but not have police powers and not carry weapons. Volunteer patrols would be trained for the task and have the equipment to quickly get in touch with police.

    Finnish legislation does not allow for volunteers to assist police operations under normal circumstances and in peacetime. Paatero hopes that Parliament will change the law as soon as possible, for example, when the issue of additional police personnel is reviewed next year.
    Last edited by PEMM; 12-26-2012 at 02:29 PM.

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    When set up right, neighborhood watch is great. One aspect is that policing is everybody business. A community works better, when the members take ownership.

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    64yo Paatero should have retired already years ago but his son has good political connections. Every time he says something, you go "oh dear, what's this time".

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    You disagree jokuvaan?

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    I thought they already had some sort of scheme on these lines. I suppose it has been buried by now.

    Some sort of 'auxiliary' police would probably be a good idea, at least in more scarcely populated areas.
    Having said that, it is unrealistic to expect political acceptance for missions other that traffic control, SAR etc.

    The timing of this proposal may have something to do with the tragic death of a 8-year old boy in YlŲjšrvi. He was found dead in a collapsed snow cave close to his home on 23.12.2012.
    His disappearance triggered a large SAR-operation including police units, dozens of volunteers and Frontier Guard helicopters. While the outcome was tragic, the volunteer SAR-operation received due credit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PEMM View Post
    You disagree jokuvaan?

    I disagree on the grounds that this is not the way to deal with the absence of the police. The burden of security cannot be placed on citizens since goverment holds the authority and monopol over the "violencemachinery" (donīt know how properly translate that). If the goverment cannot protect us then why are we paying taxes? Police just needs more funding, thats it. Lame ass excuse IMO.

    If that route is taken then these citizens guards require also a permission to use force. And in much more larger scale than the current law regarding private citizens allow.

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    We already have about 1000 LEOs without job. Maybe they should have time and will to patrol on streets ?

    Joking aside, where is the beef? Paatero wants somekind of neighborhood watch, but what is their status if something happens?

    -Can they arrest someone?
    -Can they use force?
    -What, if someone is using force against them?

    No sane person is willing to join that kind of organisation, where your legal status is somewhere between a doorman and civilian. You can already go and watch your neighborhood as much as you like and report all things to police?

    Paateros no.1 job is to give proper funding from politicians to police, not modeling any fantasy-policeforces

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    I fully agree: we need more full-time cops, not some new auxiliary force of volunteers. Finnish police is extremely poorly-funded and as a result very thinly spread. And as noted above, it's not that there aren't educated police officers - the problem is the politicians who cut the LEO budget year after year and prevent the precincts from hiring new cops. It's a small miracle the crime rate isn't any higher than it is.

    At the moment, Finland has only 143 officers per 100 000 inhabitants. Compare that to 300 in Germany or 511 in Spain. Even all the other Nordic countries have over 200 officers.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...olice_officers


    I fear that this proposal, if it goes through, will only lower the figure even further.

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    Yeah, the problem really is the attitude in Finland that its either one or another. In my opinion we need both.

    Quote Originally Posted by elijah View Post
    -Can they arrest someone?
    -Can they use force?
    -What, if someone is using force against them?

    No sane person is willing to join that kind of organisation, where your legal status is somewhere between a doorman and civilian. You can already go and watch your neighborhood as much as you like and report all things to police?
    All citizens can arrest a criminal. If someone is using force against them they have the same right as all citizens to defend themselves. Personally I think they should have same rights as guards. Difference here to situation now in rural areas would be that they actually would get training.

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