Using .22 lr as a training aid isn't bad, if that's the only option available. The fundamentals of marksmanship are the same, regardless of whether one is shooting a .177 air rifle or a .50 BMG sniper rifle.
I guess my Cadet unit must be lucky as our Detachment building is located on an RAF base (long story) and there is a decent firing range on the base along with an armoury (of course) where we can do Skill At Arms more regularly then other cadet units.Originally Posted by DeltaWhisky58
my brother off on OP telic in 20 days they have used the A2 and a lot of its faults have been ironed out its now reliable it was always accurate.
The LSW has been given a new role the british armys brought minimi so what is the role of the LSW a piss poor machine gun But an outstanding squad marksman rifle with its long heavy Barrel and Bipod its accurate out to 1000m its role is to surpress the enemy by killing them 5.56mm in you your not playing any more
new fire team
section commander
grenade launcher
minmi machine gunner
LSW for long range shooting
Because of its bullpup design it has a longer barrel giving the 5.56 round more range so it can shoot out to the same sort of ranges the sr25 m14 can without the problem of the platoon having two diffrent ammo types to carry .
"The LSW has been given a new role the british armys brought minimi so what is the role of the LSW a piss poor machine gun But an outstanding squad marksman rifle"
Interesting you mention this... the RPK-74, which is roughly the Soviet equivelent is also described as quite accurate (While testing armour piercing ammo three round groups of 18mm centre to centre at 300m were recorded, though the first round warm up shot was a flier...)
Of course Soviet training where everyone fired on full auto in bursts with their assault rifles during an assault meant that a non changeable barrel was not as big a problem as with the British forces. (ie rate of fire was very high already, so the LMG was not so much suppression, as longer range accurate fire... ie roughly what the British are proposing now).
martinexsquaddie, could you describe what weapons a British platoon would be carrying, if that isn't too off topic?
With the Russians new policy of aimed accurate fire in single shot, I am wondering if their makeup of their Platoons weapons will change.
At the moment things are in a state of flex
Basically SA 80
SA 80 with grenade launcher
LSW
MINIMI
Then its gets a little confusing theres some talk of bringing a support section which would include 2 GPMGS (FN MAgs) and the New platoon sharpshooter rifle an accuracy international rifle in .338 ( chosen over .50 because you can carry it and also theres long range highly accurate ammo readily available) But latest thinking is Gpmgs and sharpshooter rifles will be kept at company level. Other support weapons include a 94mm disposable anti tank rocket with an enhanched blast munition on order Basically some sort of thermobaric warhead for fibuia/mout Handguns are not really carried by anybody in an infantry battalion sometimes by the CO depending on how warry he is
GazB:
What martin is saying is true. There is a recent ORBAT being tested in the 'more active' (shall we say) infantry units to test some different roles for current weaponry.
The sections are now as martin described (UGL, Minimi, LSWA2 and SA80A2). Any rifleman can carry a LAW 94, depending on the armour threat. They would also be carrying 51 bombs and GPMG link. Other weapons include Rifle grenades, but these might be phased-out due to the introduction of the UGL. There is also a new group being tested known as the 'Movement Support Group'.
The composition of this is:
2x GPMG
1x 51mm (possibly 2x, we did this but only because we had two 51's at the time!)
1x i/c
The proposal is also to include a bod with the L96 7.62mm sniper rifle. Now that the LRLCR (Long Range, Large Calibre, Rifle) 8.5mm (?) is being introduced to fill the role of the L96, they will be training a sniper for every platoon. This is more like the mixed section make-up the russians have with their SVD's used like an accurate rifle, rather than as a sniper system.
http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/static/pages/3453.html
I look forward to seeing this as it would mean that there would be a dedicated fire support group with a mix of HE, HMG and deliberate fire always there to support an attack. Compare this to the situation where if you needed two sections up for the assault, there would be no reserve (one having to act as fire support).
This would also be of benefit in situations like Iraq, allowing platoons to act more independantly/aggressively as they would have sufficient organic firepower to deal with larger enemy forces.
Hope that helps!
I think the 51mm mortar is being binned apprantly the ammos too expensive for it as there are now Ugls its sort out of role plus its more weight to carry.
good news is company is going to get automatic grenade launchers to go with gpmg SF kit
AGL's...nice!
Doubt I'll see them for a while though.
The 51's OK, but if they bin it it'll still mean that some of the reserve section would have to deploy to lay down a smoke screen, put down HE. Also, what's the consideration for range, accuracy and ammo states? they would have to carry a fair number of grenades to support an attack. Plus, what's the difference in killing power between the two? I would still preffer to have a good 51 man at my disposal as the PC.
yeah but how many light role battalions you know had any good 51mm mortar men ? OK any trained mortar men we got it out once a year for a caddy never fired He rounds only used smoke.
apprantly the 51mm rounds cost too much so no training might as well bin it
Interesting parallels with the Russian choices and potential changes.
I doubt that they will remove the GPMGs and SVDs from platoons, as they tend these days to be organic... ie the BMP-3 has two hull mounted GPMGs with fibreoptic sights, but still has firing ports for RPKs, so the unit wil retain its LMGs. BTR platoons will retain GPMGS to be used dismounted.
They are currently testing a new 9.3 x 64mm medium range round in their SVD-K.
Regarding support equipment every other soldier carries disposable AT (RPG-22 being replaced by RPG-26 and RPG-27) or specialised rocket launchers like the RPO-A. One platoon member will have an RPG-7 or RPG-29. Pistols are fairly rare, though special troops do seem to like the APS stechkin machine pistol still and replacement models are developed to replace them.
Mortars are very popular with the soviets but their 50mm was phased out quite some time ago. 40mm rifle mounted grenade launchers are popular as are the ASG-30 AGLs, though the latter are used in their own seperate units for support.
There is a new Russian sniper rifle that is intended to be very accurate (as opposed to the SVD which is adequate from medium ranges up to about 5-600m). It is a bolt action much like the Accuracy International rifle the British use. It is unclear whether it will be issued to all units to replace the SVD or if the new model SVDs (ie SVDS with a folding stock, and the SVDK in high power calibre) will remain, with specialist snipers being issued with the SV-98.
Are there any units in the British army that aren't fully mechanised? Do the paras have armoued vehicles? A support vehicle increases mobility and firepower greatly... just wondering if the Paras have anything available yet. I had seen a plastic APC the British were working on. It was still 20 odd tons but looked interesting.
Also considering their use as bunker busters in the Falklands, are there any HE or FAE warheads for Milan in British use? I always wondered why the British never bought the various HE rounds for the Carl Gustav.
Was it like the RPG in that the HEAT round had adequate fragmentation to make it a multi purpose round?
The Paras have no armour the RAF would'nt have the airlift capability to support them anyway. The soviet coldwar plan to land divisions in central europe was always a bit of a farce any sort of para drop against a country with an operational air defenses system will end in a massacre.
The British have a number of type B battalions who are basically on foot
there is no dedicated bunker buster at the moment but there working on it.
Armoured infantry are mounted on warrior so not likely to need extra Gpmgs with a chain gun and a 30mm they'd just get in the way.
Paras have armed landrovers thats about it
Probably resulting in something three times as heavy as Charlie G, with ammunition that can make you a brew but has the explosive capability of a french banger
The best light infantry get are Land Rovers, Bedfords and the like
The Battalions who were supposed to be Armoured Infantry but the Government couldn't afford it, got Saxon (a vehicle that can't stop high calibre rounds, hasn't got a chance against an RPG and rolls over as often as Fido, its responsible for a few deaths.) The Armoured Infantry get Warrior which was one of those suprisingly good purchases by the MoD.
Our GPMG's were at company level, we had them but they weren't with us in the Warriors, which is good because I can't see someone with a GPMG getting out that quick
That 30mm though, lets just say I REALLY wouldn't want to be on the other end of it
there working on an enhanced Blast Munition something like a thermobaric weapon in the range of the 94mm.
Basically means no more ****ing around with room clearing just whack one of these into the lower floors set the house alight and move on.
No more building bunkers in rooms not going to help you if one of these blast weapons come through.
Dibuia will basically mean loosing off rounds and ****ing off stay static and the enemys armour will squish you. the russians found room clearing they lost to many men in chechenya so there reponse just flatten any building in there way
"The soviet coldwar plan to land divisions in central europe was always a bit of a farce any sort of para drop against a country with an operational air defenses system will end in a massacre. "
The whole idea of giving them armour is to allow them to be dropped some distance from the target area. Noone would fly cargo planes into a hostile country that had a fully operational airdefence system... look at the interventions in Hungary, of the invasion of Afghanistan. Both involved the use of airborne units to take and hold objectives ahead of the main force. the point is that only a heavy armoured force could expect to counter them and such units would not be spread around the enemies rear areas.
Anyways... which AGL would the British be buying? I read somewhere that more 40mm AGL rounds were fired in Desert Storm than 7.62mm MG rounds. I can understand that. Russian Troops in Chechnia loved their 40mm GP-25s and -30s. Best way to clear a room is from down the street with a 40mm, or an RPG rocket.
Speaking of the RPG, they have some new and very interesting thermobaric warheads. I really don't know why the British army dropped the Carl Gustav... it was heavy, but it seemed to have a very interesting and expanding range of rounds. Surely a lighter, more modern model would be of use. Perhaps eventually a laser beam riding round could be used to extend range and hit probability... I have heard the Russians and Israelis are looking into both. (The Russians already have laser homing packages for their unguided aerial rockets, including their S-5 57mm and S-8 80mm rockets).
They binned the 84 because it was **** all use against armour so the Law 80 was brought in with the idea of being able to take soviet armour head on with Milan killing the Command and air defence. then the helis A10s harriers etc come in and **** over the shock army's neat little formation with mavericks tows and cluster bombs :lol
all very pretty till someone spoils it all and the nukes start flying
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