Reply With QuoteNever served there, but I work with some guys who were based in Potsdam at that time.
Berlin Brigade Question
Any vets here that served in the Berlin Brigade circa 1980s? I have a few questions for a story that I'm writing.
Never served there, but I work with some guys who were based in Potsdam at that time.
British, American or both?
Saw a british docu from the late 80's, lets just say the troops themselves weren't really optimistic of their chance of even getting out the gate if the balloon went up.
I'm trying to write a story about two civilians who perhaps attach themselves to a small knot of US soldiers during the invasion of West Berlin by the NVA/Soviets. I've been making a lot of notes, including seeing a Youtube vid on "Fall X" as well as printing a 1994 article on NVA plans for a takeover of the city. I have a list of US, French, British units that would've been there in June/July '86 (time of the fictional invasion). I want to concentrate on West Berlin as I feel it would act as a microcosm to the bigger events occurring from a WP/Soviet invasion of west Europe.
I figured that NATO resupply to W. Berlin was out of the question as they'd have their hands busy. The NVA strategy was to divide the city along an east/west axis to separate the French/British from the US zones, then to reduce those areas as quickly as possible. The Berlin Brigade was to last as long as possible, tying down as many Communist units as possible. I have read various opinions on how long the BB would last, some say hours others days. I figured it would be days perhaps more than a week considering that in addition to the 10k+ NATO troops there would be 6K W. German police many with their names on Stasi hit lists.
To the vets I'd like to ask how long would large unit cohesion last before breaking up into smaller cells? Could radio communications be jammed by the NVA? What is US Army tactics like for defending in urban environments circa 1980s?
Ideally I'd like to have the story concentrate on a handful of US soldiers plus as many as half a dozen civilians. I'm still quite a ways from doing an outline, I'm collecting information at the moment.
The main US Army infantry units listed in '86 are the 4th, 5th, and 6th Battalions of the 502nd Infantry. That doesn't count the multitiude of troops in armor (F Company 40th Armor), the 287th MP Co., 42nd Co. Engineers, USAF Security at Tempelhof, Battery C 94th Field Artillery etc.
Could you post that article up by chance? If there's a link to it. It sounds interesting.
http://ciar.org/ttk/mbt/armor/armor-.../6berlin94.pdf
It really is interesting. Most of the invading units are NVA. The Soviets planned to use the 6th Independent Motor Rifle Brigade, the only non NVA unit to be involved.
Surprise seems to be the one thing the planners hoped for, but if NVA paras start dropping into Tempelhof, and Tegel airports at the outset the shooting from French/US airbase security would sound the alarm awfully quick.
Probably not very long, and yes very much so - although that was practiced. Alot.Originally Posted by G-AWZT
The MLMs in Potsdam (USMLM, BRIXMIS and MMFL) would have acted as a tripwire for any move given that they'd have had tours out in the DDR as the NVA was forming up. I'd be very surprised if any sort of NVA opertaion wasn't telegraphed well in advance.
Would you say that would give the NATO units an hour or two advance notice that something was up?
The British units that I've found to be active in June/July '86 were as follows:
3 Infantry Battalions:
Royal Highland Fusiliers Reg't (Montgomery Barracks)
Devon and Dorset Reg't (Brooke Barracks)
Gloucestershire Reg't (Wavell Barracks)
Armor:
B Squadron 14/20th Hussars Chieftain Tanks
French Units:
11th eme Reg't Chasseurs AMX-30 Tanks
46th eme Reg't d' Infanterie
10th eme Companie du Geni
Centre Entrainment du Commando CeC No. 10
Gendarmerie Berlin
Base Arienne 165 (Tegel)
11th eme Radio Co.
None of the NATO units in West Berlin had any airpower to speak of other than some rotary wing craft which would be nixed in any invasion.
The key element for the Berlin Brigades would be AT weapons. I think the British had the 120mm Wombat AT recoilless rifle although I may be wrong. I'm quite certain the Milan, TOW, and LAW rockets would be quite numerous.
I'm sure it's easier to defend than to attack in a pure urban setting.
Cool, thanks a lot for that.
The MLMs would probably have given several days warning of a major build up given that there were tours out 24/7 365 days a year.
BRIXMIS had two unarmed Chipmunk trainers at Gattow.
Yes, we had LandRover mounted Wombats.
What sort of portable AT weapon was used by the British troops?
As for helmets I seen pics from '86 showing troops still wearing the Turtle helmet while on exercise in England. I assume the Mk. 6 Kevlars were being sent to the BOAR based units rather than those stationed in W. Berlin.
Charlie G (and 66? we certainly had them then).
Not sure about helmets - we had kevlars in 86, but were very much the exception then.
didn't they keep Wombat because ranges inside Berlin were to short for guided weapons?
Also, to quote some guy in a thread on arrse, he'd "park his panzer and feck off to the nearest knocking-shop, to spend his last hours with some local lasses" if it all went up.
120 mm shot from the Wombat would be quite a punch. I wonder if the West Berlin Polizei had stockpiles of the PzF 44?
I have another query. Did the barracks in West Berlin have bars and were civilians allowed to visit them if invited by personnel?
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