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Thread: Putin: Russia must pay tribute to Red Army soldiers who died in Winter War

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    Default Putin: Russia must pay tribute to Red Army soldiers who died in Winter War

    Russian President Vladimir Putin has voiced support for building memorials to honor Red Army soldiers who died in a 1939-1940 war with Finland.
    Putin said Thursday at a meeting with military historians that Soviet dictator Josef Stalin launched the war to "correct mistakes" made in drawing the border with Finland after the 1917 Bolshevik revolution.




    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/03...#ixzz2NbH2ICZz
    This is news to me, aren't there memorials in Russia regarding this war? If not, I see it as a good thing. Around here there are memorials like following for battle of Suomussalmi which has rock representing soldiers and civilians from both sides that died in battle.

    http://heninen.net/raatteentie/hanke/english.htm

    As for the correcting mistakes part, seems to me everyone was out to "correcting mistakes" around that point in time. I do disagree a bit on his conclusion on what caused the defeat of Finland in the war. Finnish tabloids write that he said it was the regrouping of Red Army, while I personally think it had more to do with the situation in Finnish army, lack of supplies and reinforcements. He is not totally wrong though. If you have Russian source with a bit more on what he said, I would be glad to read it. Finnish tabloids seem to want to make this comment to mean more than what it probably does.

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    Senior Member merk666's Avatar
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    this. in russian. a bit more about borders.
    http://www.rg.ru/2013/03/14/memorial-anons.html

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    Senior Member Flamming_Python's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEMM View Post
    As for the correcting mistakes part, seems to me everyone was out to "correcting mistakes" around that point in time. I do disagree a bit on his conclusion on what caused the defeat of Finland in the war. Finnish tabloids write that he said it was the regrouping of Red Army, while I personally think it had more to do with the situation in Finnish army, lack of supplies and reinforcements. He is not totally wrong though. If you have Russian source with a bit more on what he said, I would be glad to read it. Finnish tabloids seem to want to make this comment to mean more than what it probably does.
    Yeah Putin's comment was quite a bit more elaborate than simply 'Stalin correcting mistakes' which **might** give the wrong impression
    But still, Putin paints a simplistic picture and I reckon Stalin's reasons for launching the war went beyond a desire to expand the Soviet-Finnish borders to more than 17-20km from Leningrad.

    BTW from merk666s source:

    Putin ordered them to consider the issue, including together with the Ministry of Culture. The president emphasized that this work should be done in a such a way, so as to promote the strengthening of relations with Finland; not confrontation with her.

    "We must do everything to ensure that our common, including bloody history would serve as an example in order to ensure that nothing like this will be repeated in the future," - said Putin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamming_Python View Post
    [*******#333333]Putin ordered them to consider the issue, including together with the Ministry of Culture. The president emphasized that this work should be done in a such a way, so as to promote the strengthening of relations with Finland; not confrontation with her.[/COLOR]
    Thanks, I expected as much. They conveniently left this out, they are tabloids after all. Otherwise it would have conflicted with his earlier statements on the issue.

    The Karelia question was not on the official agenda of the Halonen visit, but it nevertheless came up in the discussions. According to the US material leaked by Wikileaks, Putin had said that “continued discussion about the possible retrocession of Karelia to Finland could damage the Russian-Finnish bilateral relationship”.
    Putin said that Stalin made a mistake by invading Finland during the Winter War.
    “Russia had enough territory and didn’t need to defend itself”, Putin said according to the leaked document.
    http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Fin.../1135263729393

    There has been attempts for such direction like the monument I mentioned that was done in cooperation. There's also older monuments around the same area for Russian and Ukrainian troops.

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    Senior Member merk666's Avatar
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    karelia..karelia... in karelia 90% russians, 2% finns and 8% karela.
    why this question is still discussed?
    ps. finland simply does not recognize karela as ethnicity. we do.

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    Senior Member Flamming_Python's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merk666 View Post
    karelia..karelia... in karelia 90% russians, 2% finns and 8% karela.
    why this question is still discussed?
    ps. finland simply does not recognize karela as ethnicity. we do.
    Well that document refers to a conversation between Putin and Halonen 13 years ago. So whatever :P

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    Its about time, there's very few alive anymore from those caught between the hammer and the anvil.

    Quote Originally Posted by merk666 View Post
    ps. finland simply does not recognize karela as ethnicity. we do.
    WTF???
    Karelians are one of the ethnic subgroups or "tribes" as expressed in traditional ethnography, of which the people of Finland are thought to consist.
    Though today, they have largely mixed due to the effect of migration.
    And Ingrian Finns were permitted to come to Finland after the dissolution of the USSR.

    What hogwash are you writing about?

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    Quote Originally Posted by merk666 View Post
    karelia..karelia... in karelia 90% russians, 2% finns and 8% karela.
    why this question is still discussed?
    ps. finland simply does not recognize karela as ethnicity. we do.
    Still? Back in the day our president didn't really want to talk about it, but as Pro Karelia was campaigning during that time (13 years ago) Putin brought it up. It was talked about during that time because it was claimed that our earlier president Koivisto was told by Yeltsin back in 90's that it would be negotiable, but Koivisto didn't want to talk about it.

    There was inquiry on attitudes of Finns by EVA back in 2006 that asked "Should the talk about returning Karelia be stopped already in our country". 73% said we should, 10% couldn't say and 17% disagreed. Mainly older generation disagrees.
    Last edited by PEMM; 03-15-2013 at 10:02 AM.

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    Senior Member merk666's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gumiman View Post
    WTF???
    Karelians are one of the ethnic subgroups or "tribes" as expressed in traditional ethnography, of which the people of Finland are thought to consist.
    Though today, they have largely mixed due to the effect of migration.
    WTF?
    where are karela in your demographics?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Finland
    I said this only.

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    Quote Originally Posted by merk666 View Post
    WTF?
    where are karela in your demographics?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Finland
    I said this only.
    If Karelians were differentiated they should also differentiate with Savonians, Ostrobothnians etc. The reason Karelians are now considered to be a different group is the long separation making Karelian different language than just a dialect, originally they were from same group.

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    Senior Member merk666's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEMM View Post
    If Karelians were differentiated they should also differentiate with Savonians, Ostrobothnians etc. The reason Karelians are now considered to be a different group is the long separation making Karelian different language than just a dialect, originally they were from same group.
    russians, belorussains and malorussians - are also of the "same group" of "russian" suffix, but west like to see them strictly separate...

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    Quote Originally Posted by merk666 View Post
    where are karela in your demographics?
    The Statistics Finland does not seperate population in Finland as "Finns" or "Karelians" but based on their first language and nationality. Thus "Karelians" are either listed under Finns or Russians. Unfortunately their database does not know the Karelian language. Karelians in Finland are either Finnish-speaking Lutheran or Orthodox people mostly living in the Finnish Karelia or Karelian-speaking people living in any part of Finland.

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    Quote Originally Posted by merk666 View Post
    russians, belorussains and malorussians - are also of the "same group" of "russian" suffix, but west like to see them strictly separate...
    Of course Karelians today form a different group. Some 5000 living in Finland speaking Karelian, how many of them consider themselves to be Finns or Karelians is then a different thing.

    Anyway, when Pro Karelia talks about returning Karelia they mean Karelian isthmus and some area north, where Finnish Karelians lived. Not the areas where people you are talking about live in.
    Last edited by PEMM; 03-15-2013 at 10:28 AM.

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    Senior Member merk666's Avatar
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    Long live Russian-Karelian friendship!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamming_Python View Post
    But still, Putin paints a simplistic picture and I reckon Stalin's reasons for launching the war went beyond a desire to expand the Soviet-Finnish borders to more than 17-20km from Leningrad.
    They were coming to liberate finnish comrades from the foreign provocateurs and warmongers and their finnish bloodthirsty sycophants, who were oppressing the finnish proletariat. However, it turned out to be no parade.

    I think this finnish border incident was officially pretty much hushed until the end of the Soviet Union.

    Karelia, we don't need it. Petsamo on the other hand...

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