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Thread: Philippine DND draws up bidding documents for purchase of new frigates

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    Default Philippine DND draws up bidding documents for purchase of new frigates

    DND draws up bidding documents for purchase of new frigates
    Published on Tuesday, 12 March 2013 20:34
    Written by Dennis D. Estopace / Reporter

    THE Department of National Defense (DND) is now drawing up the necessary papers as it chose the public bidding option for the purchase of brand-new frigates.

    This was confirmed by DND Spokesman Peter Paul Ruben G. Galvez. “I believe the office handling the acquisition is finalizing the papers for public bidding.”

    Galvez, acting chief of staff of Defense Secretary Voltaire T. Gazmin, spoke to the BusinessMirror after Philippine Navy (PN) spokesman Lt. Cmdr. Gregory Fabic confirmed news reports that the Philippine Navy is seeking to acquire two brand-new frigates.

    “It makes sense for the Philippine Navy, for us, for the government to settle for something new,” Galvez said, adding that the first option of buying second-hand frigates on a government-to-government method would be costly in the long run.

    “It’s like buying a car that you would need to spend an additional more to overhaul.”

    http://www.businessmirror.com.ph/ind...f-new-frigates
    Since the Philippines decided to drop the plan to buy second-hand frigates from Italy, it's time to start a new discussion. Previous discussion on the subject took place here.

    http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...r-bombers-UAVs

    The initial budget for the new Philippines frigates is around $300 million, for as of yet undetermined number of ships. It's not known if this is the initial budget for the lead ship only or if the Philippines plans to make all its ends meet with that amount of money.

    But building the frigates locally in the Philippines will be an option this time. Hanjin Heavy Industries' Subic Shipyard is adequately equipped for the job. Acquiring first hand building know-how of the frigates, reducing procurement cost through localized work, and having full control of the ships' A/S will be some distinctive advantages of using the shipyard.






    Korea's Incheon class frigate will naturally be competing to leverage Hanjin's existing shipbuilding presence, and the Korean government has already submitted a proposal. Hanjin is one of the major builders of ROKN ships.



    If you have other new built OPV or frigate suggestions for the Philippine bid, please post them here.

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    How about a series of SIGMA frigates?

    They're modular so you can build an OPV, a corvette and a frigate on the same basic starting paltform. Size, armament, endurace, they can all be customized. They can also be built locally with Damen's help just like Indonesia is doing, great for aquiring the know-how.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigma-class_corvette

    Moroccan SIGMA frigates:
    http://www.damennaval.com/nl/company...gates-cmrm.htm

    Product info:
    http://www.damen.nl/en/markets/sigma-class-frigate
    http://www.damen.nl/en/markets/sigma-class-corvette

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    IMO, the most bang for the buck would be one of the main considerations. I don't know if incentives and "freebies" or "donations" would be allowed in such a bidding process. If it does, I see Korea getting a slight edge as they can "donate" old corvettes as an incentive and that would serve as gap-filler until the new-build frigates gets commissioned.

    As for the on-going "final" negotiations for the FA-50s I think Korea should sweeten the deal with a handful of old F-16s. Doesn't Korea plan to retire their first order of F-16 blk 32 sometime 2020-2025?? Didn't those got upgraded by Lockheed Martin?

    [*******#000000][FONT=Arial]
    Laura Siebert, Lockheed’s F-16 spokeswoman, noted that the company worked with the U.S. Air Force on the recent upgrade of South Korea’s F-16C/D Block 32s, and the company is confident it will continue to manage such programs in South Korea. “This program is ongoing and when implemented, will result in an aircraft configuration that is very much like the USAF Block 40 and 50 fleet,” Siebert said
    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    http://minnickarticles.blogspot.com/...est-could.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by icefrog View Post
    IMO, the most bang for the buck would be one of the main considerations. I don't know if incentives and "freebies" or "donations" would be allowed in such a bidding process. If it does, I see Korea getting a slight edge as they can "donate" old corvettes as an incentive and that would serve as gap-filler until the new-build frigates gets commissioned.

    As for the on-going "final" negotiations for the FA-50s I think Korea should sweeten the deal with a handful of old F-16s. Doesn't Korea plan to retire their first order of F-16 blk 32 sometime 2020-2025?? Didn't those got upgraded by Lockheed Martin?
    We need those upgraded F-16s, until we get a sufficient number of FA-50s flying; hell even the more ancient F-4 and F-5 are getting serious avionics overhaul and standoff weapons to keep them relevant longer. The old F-16s are still as capable as the USAF planes and they are very valuable assets to our air force.

    Any deal sweetener from the Korean side will likely be in the form of soft loans that the Philippines can pay back with little interest over a long-term period. There may be other donations of weapons but I doubt it will be the F-16s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cpt caveman View Post
    How about a series of SIGMA frigates?
    More specs here:

    SIGMA 9813 SIGMA 10513 SIGMA 10514 PKR Frigate

    Commonality and similarity in DAMEN SIGMA designs

    A Gowind Combat corvette (similar to the Malaysian ones) seems like a good design too. FREMM ( French or Italian ) may be too expensive for the Philippines ?

    Fincantieri has some nice corvette design (based on this) too, available for local production.

    Germany will probably offer the MEKO or even the FLExpatrol

    I can see ST Marine (Singapore) pitching in with its Fearless design

    And of course, I could see Lockheed running with one of its MCS design.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambassador View Post
    We need those upgraded F-16s, until we get a sufficient number of FA-50s flying; hell even the more ancient F-4 and F-5 are getting serious avionics overhaul and standoff weapons to keep them relevant longer. The old F-16s are still as capable as the USAF planes and they are very valuable assets to our air force.

    Any deal sweetener from the Korean side will likely be in the form of soft loans that the Philippines can pay back with little interest over a long-term period. There may be other donations of weapons but I doubt it will be the F-16s.
    The F-5's were offered. It doesnt make sense that you offer a frontline Fighter aircraft as the sweetener for a LIFT.

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    ^Aren't you the same guy that said the 2nd-hand F-16 coming directly from the US is already a sure thing? Remember that!? I would never, never forget that.

    Now, I know Indonesia got 1 squadron of F5s from the T-50 deal but I don't see why not instead of giving F5s the prospective buyer can ask 4-6 2nd-hand F-16s instead of 1 squadron of F5s. Also, let me be clear that I am not saying "give" per se but to sell them at a better price than what they could have gotten from the US.

    Anyway, Ambassador seems to be sure too that Korea can't spare a handful of old F-16s. It was just a humble suggestion on my part. It's nice to have an open-mind sometimes. All I know is as long as they haven't really signed anything yet and I'm sure the Italians are still there plus news of South Africa's 12 Gripens anything still can happen.

    Look at what happen to the Maestrale. As early as late last year they said that the papers are done and ready to sign and that they are just awaiting for the AFP modernization fund to pass. A few months later, they scrapped it.

    Korea can either do a sweep from KT-1, FA-50 and Frigate requirement or get nothing at all.

    Just saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by icefrog View Post
    ^Aren't you the same guy that said the 2nd-hand F-16 coming directly from the US is already a sure thing? Remember that!? I would never, never forget that.

    Now, I know Indonesia got 1 squadron of F5s from the T-50 deal but I don't see why not instead of giving F5s the prospective buyer can ask 4-6 2nd-hand F-16s instead of 1 squadron of F5s. Also, let me be clear that I am not saying "give" per se but to sell them at a better price than what they could have gotten from the US.

    Anyway, Ambassador seems to be sure too that Korea can't spare a handful of old F-16s. It was just a humble suggestion on my part. It's nice to have an open-mind sometimes. All I know is as long as they haven't really signed anything yet and I'm sure the Italians are still there plus news of South Africa's 12 Gripens anything still can happen.

    Look at what happen to the Maestrale. As early as late last year they said that the papers are done and ready to sign and that they are just awaiting for the AFP modernization fund to pass. A few months later, they scrapped it.

    Korea can either do a sweep from KT-1, FA-50 and Frigate requirement or get nothing at all.

    Just saying.
    Nope, post what I said again, it seems you were the only one that didnt get it. I used the F-16 as a hint, somehow your slow ass brain did not get it that I was talking about the T-50's. Remeber similar systems to the F-16's? Why would I say it is the F-16's when we were talking about LIFT? Unlike you who bases things on forums, I actually talk to guys in the Air Force that matter, with regards to this project.

    Again, F-16's for LIFT does not make sense. Usually its the other way around, you get less valuable equipment as a sweetener to a deal. Think about it, we turned down other F-16 deals cause we werent ready for them, budget to operate wise, infrastructure wise, and personnel wise. Now why would that be a sweetener to get an aircraft, that is supposed to develop those capabilities first, so we can operate fighters at the F-16 and up, level?

    The F-5 was the sweetener, because we operaty.ed them before so, it would give us a fighter to provide some sort of Air Defense... hint hint: one of the main reasons why the AMX did not have a chance in hell.

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    More shipyard p*rn from Hanjin Philippines.




























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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambassador View Post
    More shipyard p*rn from Hanjin Philippines.
    how about photos of Austal Cebu and Tsuneishi shipyard of Cebu...

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    The linked article states $11.7 billion PHP for two Frigates. They aren't buying SIGMAs if they want to pay less than $150 million USD per hull. Something more like the Holland class OPV is more likely to fit that budget, and provide the Phillipines with a good capability.

    I'd be cautious of putting hopes on domestic production. If they want to go that route, they should build toward it by building support craft locally first. Jumping right into a combatant can be problematic even in partnership with a company like Hanjin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by killrage View Post
    how about photos of Austal Cebu and Tsuneishi shipyard of Cebu...
    Austal Philippines:




    Tsuneishi Philippines:



    If you have more pics of their renovation or expansion, please share them here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halidon View Post
    The linked article states $11.7 billion PHP for two Frigates. They aren't buying SIGMAs if they want to pay less than $150 million USD per hull. Something more like the Holland class OPV is more likely to fit that budget, and provide the Phillipines with a good capability.

    I'd be cautious of putting hopes on domestic production. If they want to go that route, they should build toward it by building support craft locally first. Jumping right into a combatant can be problematic even in partnership with a company like Hanjin.
    Philippine does have some experience building naval support ships at local shipyards, for example a 570-ton LCU. But I mostly agree with you, under normal circumstances, it would be very risky to try to construct a complex multipurpose warship domestically right off the bat when your only prior experience in the area is small support ships.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRP_Tagbanua_%28AT-296%29

    However, I was thinking of the examples of nearby countries like Indonesia and Malaysia as the Philippines' role model. These two countries had locally built their first naval ships of major displacement with help from Korean shipbuilders. 10,000-ton LPDs and 1,500-ton training vessels are not as complex as full-fledged frigates, but they were also built in shipyards that were much smaller than Hanjin. By comparison the Hanjin shipyard is very well equipped and well-manned, capable of producing 5% of the Philippines' GDP; it would be less challenging to upgrade this shipyard for serious naval shipbuilding business, for at least OPVs or large support ships, than it had been for PT Pal or NGV Tech, if the Philippines is willing to invest in gaining such a capability. And don't forget that Hanjin Philippines was recently contracted for detailed MRO of USN ships in the region, performing virtually the same job that US shipbuilders are doing for the USN stateside. Hanjin Philippines' warship business has only just started.

    What the Philippines can gain here is, even if it uses a foreign-owned local shipyard to construct the ship, the construction can still be done at the hands of Philippine engineers, thereby acquiring the skilled workforce and the design knowledge of naval ships. In the future, when the Philippines begins to operate its own shipyards, it will have a ready cohort of naval engineers within the country who can truly build warships on their own if only they have the necessary equipment and funding. Given the Philippines' low labor cost, building these ships cheaply will no longer be a problem once they gain the knowledge. Of course, the obvious prerequisite for the plan to succeed is that the Filipino politicians understand its challenges but also the benefits perfectly well. The project will have a willing partner and workforce, but it still needs good leadership.

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    It took the Malaysian and Korean joint venture nine months to construct their two training vessels from the first steel cut in March 2012 to launch in December. Block assembly after keel laying lasted only three months.

    RMN’s Training Frigate Progressing Well
    Posted on September 18, 2012 by hafizuddinsulaiman

    Former prime minister Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad has expressed confidence that local shipbuilders are capable of building large vessels, including war ships. This is based on NGV Tech’s stunning progress when the shipbuilder manage to complete more than 50% of RMN’s training frigate construction even though works on the two ships were only started about six months ago when the first steel was cut. All of the ships are now ready for keel laying.

    The hull of one of the ship was built in 4 main blocks and was assembled in Malaysia while the superstructure of the ship was wholly built in this country. Another ship nevertheless, was built completely in Malaysia.

    “I am confident that NGV Tech is capable of building large vessels and warships as it is a sophisticated company entrusted with building two Royal Malaysian Navy training ships through a joint venture with a South Korean company,” he told reporters after attending a Hari-Raya open house hosted by NGV Tech here today.

    http://malaysiaflyingherald.wordpres...gressing-well/
    The entire process of building the 'frigates' locally in Malaysia since contract signing in 2010 involved the construction of a whole new shipyard in Malaysia for them and future Malaysian warships, which was completed in 2012 and immediately put to use to build those first two ships. The construction of both the shipyard and the ships were all done in a span of two years.

    DSA 2010: South Korea's DSME to begin building shipyard in Malaysia this year, MARKET INTELLIGENCE

    South Korea's Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering (DSME) company is due to start construction of a shipyard in Malaysia later this year to partly focus on meeting the demands of regional navies.

    An official of the company revealed its plans to Jane's on April 20 and said that the shipyard is to be located in an industrial park in the state of Pahang and is scheduled for completion by 2012 or 2013. DSME is overseeing the joint construction project in conjunction with its local partner TG Agas.

    http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes-...this-year.html
    I believe the same degree of success as Malaysia in jump-starting a naval industry through joint venture is theoretically achievable for the Philippines, by expanding its existing strategic partnership with Korean shipbuilders. People are used to saying Malaysia is a wealthier country, but the Philippines is more experienced in shipbuilding. In fact, the Philippines is better positioned in this venture due to its possession of a capable shipyard already, rather than having to begin the venture from ground zero by constructing a shipyard first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambassador View Post
    It took the Malaysian and Korean joint venture nine months to construct their two training vessels from the first steel cut in March 2012 to launch in December. Block assembly after keel laying lasted only three months.



    The entire process of building the 'frigates' locally in Malaysia since contract signing in 2010 involved the construction of a whole new shipyard in Malaysia for them and future Malaysian warships, which was completed in 2012 and immediately put to use to build those first two ships. The construction of both the shipyard and the ships were all done in a span of two years.



    I believe the same degree of success as Malaysia in jump-starting a naval industry through joint venture is theoretically achievable for the Philippines, by expanding its existing strategic partnership with Korean shipbuilders. People are used to saying Malaysia is a wealthier country, but the Philippines is more experienced in shipbuilding. In fact, the Philippines is better positioned in this venture due to its possession of a capable shipyard already, rather than having to begin the venture from ground zero by constructing a shipyard first.
    The wealth difference isnt really all that big. Last time the Philippine was a hawk it scared the hell out of its neighbors and the US with its missile programs and plans to develop nuclear weapons capabilities. Generations can laugh now, but dont forget when most of its neighbors were eating dirt it was Filipino engineers that build their dams and developed seeds so the rest can eat properly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Halidon View Post
    The linked article states $11.7 billion PHP for two Frigates. They aren't buying SIGMAs if they want to pay less than $150 million USD per hull. Something more like the Holland class OPV is more likely to fit that budget, and provide the Phillipines with a good capability.

    I'd be cautious of putting hopes on domestic production. If they want to go that route, they should build toward it by building support craft locally first. Jumping right into a combatant can be problematic even in partnership with a company like Hanjin.
    What i've found on the internet indicates the Holland class as used by the RNLN cost about €120 million per ship for a production run of FOUR ships. At current exchange rates, that'd be €153,6 million per ship provided the Dutch spec is available for export (there may be restrictions on the electronics) and provided they could be built for a similar price with a two-ship order. A big chunk of the cost is supposedly taken up by the I-mast system, at €30 million. One should also take in consideration that while these ships represent a significant percentage of the Dutch fleet, the RNLN does not need them to be brawlers, which may be different for the Philippines, necessitating a number of differences in (weapons)systems and so on.

    Of course, considering what happened with the Indonesian orderr, I bet Damen and the Dutch government would be willing to set up an attractive financial package for the Philippines if there is solid interest in the ships.

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