Reply With QuoteGAU-5 is what the Air Force calls it's short M16s. I hesitate to call them M-4s, since most of them began their lives as M16s or Commandos(which were also called GAUs). They now have the same features as the other service's M-4s. Cheers, G
M-4 GAU-5?
Okay so I was flipping through that new book about PJ's in Afghanistan and the author was talking about something called the GAU-5 Rifle. There was a picture of a PJ with an M4A1, but he called it a GAU-5. What exactly is this, and is it a common term? Or is this just something the author made up, or is it just what the PJ's call their M4's?
GAU-5 is what the Air Force calls it's short M16s. I hesitate to call them M-4s, since most of them began their lives as M16s or Commandos(which were also called GAUs). They now have the same features as the other service's M-4s. Cheers, G
Re: M-4 GAU-5?
This is name for XM-177E1 and XM-177E2 in USAF. The GAU-5/A is a XM-177E1 without the forward assist (10" barrel). GAU-5/A/A is a XM-177E2 without the forward assist (11,5" barrel) or M649 M16A1 Carbine (14" barrel).Originally Posted by FuturePara
Source: http://feistyrooster.com/XM177/A 1984 memo directed all USAF GAU-5/A's and GAU-5A/A's to have the muzzle compensator removed. And replaced with the M-16A1 muzzle compensator. Some were modified, some were not.
The USAF made a quick internal fix to the 1/12~1/7 twist on most of the GAU series carbines. The CATMS (Combat Arms Training & Maintance Specialist) replaced the the 10 & 11.5 inch barrels. Installing a 14.5 inch barrel with the M-16A1 muzzle compensator. All the carbines I have seen of this configuration were stamped GAU-5/P. I could not find out the acronym breakdown for this new designation. These are still being used, although they are slowly being replaced with the M-4/4A1 carbines.
The best way to distinguish (in photos) original XM-177E1 & XM-177E2 carbines is, they DO NOT have bayonet studs! Any carbine labeled this is incorrect. Same holds true for the GAU-5/A and GAU-5/A/A. No bayonet lugs!
GAU-5/A/A
If you're sure its an M4 then its a misnomer. The US Air Force designated their version of the XM177E1 (Colt Model 610) the GAU-5/A and their version of the E2 (Colt Model 649) GAU-5/A/A. I would think it weird for the US Air Force to go backwards in their designations, so if its an M4 then its probably not a GAU-5, or perhaps the Air Force went one step further, designated it GAU-5/A/A/A and the book's editors felt no need for that.
Further note, you said that this was a photo from the current operations in Afghanistan? I believe that all XM177's were removed from service by, at the latest, the 1970's, meaning that unless M4's are designated GAU-5 as well, this book is wrong.
-edit-
It would appear from the information provided above that the Air Force is in possession of a bunch of hodge-podge pre-M4 carbines as well, further adding to the confusion.
Duncan Long, in his book The AR-15/M16 Sourcebook says that as they left the factory, the carbines specifically for the USAF are thus:
Colt Model 610: "Commando, U.S. Air Force XM177, without forward assist, 10-inch barrel, no bayonet lug, low-noise muzzle brake with flash hider, round and ribbed handgaurd. Marked 'Colt AR-15'"
Colt Model 649: "Commando with 11.5-inch barrel, no forward assist, large flash hider, telescoping stock, M16A1 receiver, Marked 'Colt M16' (US Air Force)"
The information above would also provide insight as to why biggerhammer.net claims that the Model 649 had a 14" barrel rather than Duncan Long's claim of 11.5". I have seen pictures of what appear to be A1 carbines without forward assists in the hands of USAF operators, and now that appears to also be explained.
I think the last point I will say on this subject is that given the modularity of the AR-15/M16 system and the constant modifications by various entities (an example of which can be seen right here with the AF), that very few weapons like this (carbines and even shorter rifles, used by special force or similar groups) are ever to their "box specs" anymore, and one should be wary of the captions of photos of spec ops operators especially, that contain very specific type references to equipment used.
The USAF’s GAU-5 series started with the original XM177, and consists of four variants differing primarily in barrel length. The models are the GAU-5A, GAU-5A/A, GAU-5A/B, and GAU-5P. Only the GAU-5A/B possessed a forward assist; they appear to be surplus XM177E2 absorbed into USAF inventory.
The GAU-5P is the longest, equipped with a 14.5" barrel. Many of the older weapons were eventually converted to this variant when the individual weapon required rebarreling.
Several years back, the GAU-5 still in USAF service were eventually upgraded with a 14.5" M4-configuration barrel using a 1-7" twist. These upgraded models were redesignated GUU-5P.
As of November 2002, the USAF began to procure flat-top M4 fitted with the M68 CCO to replace their older M16/M16A2 rifles and GAU-5/GUU-5 carbines.
No offense, but would it have killed the services to have common designations?
Re: M-4 GAU-5?
What's the book? I just did a quick search on Amazon and didn't come up with anything all that recent....
I just remembered someone had shown me this pic, which is straight from the USAF website (although the operators arm patch makes life slightly confusing...), and if you look at the weapon, it appears to be exactly what we're talking about. A weapon with an antiquated reciever group, M4 profile barrel and a rail handgaurd, creating a weapon which isn't an M4, isn't an A1 carbine, and isn't a "Commando" in the generally accepted usage of that term.
Being that this is a "photo" web site, here ya go:
OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM -- Capt. Danny Stout, an air liaison officer deployed with the Army's 2-505 Parachute Infantry Regiment of the 82nd Airborne Division, takes a much-needed break during a classified mission in the mountains of Afghanistan. Stout, a B-52 Stratofortress pilot serving a two-year tour with the Army, keeps his eyes in the skies for hours at a time to control coalition aircraft on close-air support missions. (U.S. Air Force photo by 2nd Lt. Rebecca Garland)"
Oh yeah, sorry, don't have any bigger pictures, hehe.
The book about USAF PJ's in Afghanistan is called "None Braver: Air Force Pararescuemen in the War on Terrorism." I'm gonna go out and get it today. I need something new to read.
Hmm... do you have any photos of those rifles? Or - to be exact - more photos than posted here untill now? (also GUU-5P).
TIA
Sorry, I don't have any photos to submit.
No GAU-5 is not a misnomer, go over to the equipment and gear forum. Check into the M-16 Story post. I explain, the whole USAF GAU-5 issue.
This USAF Air Liasion Officer is with the 20th Air Support Operations Squadron. *It is aligned to the US Army's 10th Mountain Divison (Light)
He has a GUU-5/P carbine leaning next to his ruck. This weapon was originally a GAU-5A or GAU-5A/A, sub-machine gun. It was refurbished with a M-4, 14.5 inch, 1/7 rifling, stepped barrel. This ALO has replaced the original handguards with a KAC M-4 RIS. The GUU-5/P is slowly being replaced with the M-4 series carbine. (see M-16 Story)
You realize you're replying to a message posted over 14 months ago?
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