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Thread: Time Magazine: Are U.S. Veterans Selfish?

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    Senior Member LineDoggie's Avatar
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    Default Time Magazine: Are U.S. Veterans Selfish?

    Are U.S. Veterans Selfish?


    As the Pentagon budget vise tightens, those who served complain over cuts

    It’s an impudent question, but one that naturally surfaces given the outrage rolling in from assorted veterans’ groups as Congress and the Pentagon seek ways to trim government spending that sometimes affect those who have volunteered to fight America’s wars.It’s also the predictable downside to enlisting only 1% of the nation’s citizens to fight, and possibly die, to strive to achieve national goals.
    When presidents and congresses insist on waging war with no shared sacrifice, it should come as scant surprise that those who have done all the sacrificing squawk when their expected benefits end up on the chopping block.
    But it is disquieting. It suggests that the nation is developing a military caste, separate and apart from the nation. It seems the military is in danger of becoming just another special interest group.








    More at the Link, SOURCE:

    http://swampland.time.com/2014/01/26...rss-topstories


    EDIT: NOT New York Times, but Time Magazine

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    The average enlisted person now earns, in all forms of compensation, more than 90% of his or her civilian counterparts; officers are paid more than 83% of civilians with similar education and experience.
    Say what???

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    So sad that a magazine like TIME has become littered with such awful articles. Our nation "threatened by the possibility of a 'military caste'? How ridiculous

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    Senior Member LineDoggie's Avatar
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    I cant put it in better words than this

    ....We planned for our later years based on what Congress and the White House promised us for our loyal service, and sometimes asking of us more than would be considered reasonable by most of the people in this country. But we remained loyal and did what we were told. And this is the thanks we get....


    Yeah, well, we took it in the ass after Vietnam, we took it in the ass in the 90s and now we’re expected to take in the ass again. Like it’s our job to take it in the ass. We didn’t become “another special interest group” all on our own – we were pushed. We were pushed by congressmen who won’t cut spending for illegals and criminals, but won’t blink an eye to slash a cost of living allowance for a widow or disabled veteran who gave as much as they could give. Those are people who can’t just go out and find a job to supplement their pensions, they depend on their pensions and and the cost of living increases. But the votes are what count, and military spending, especially personnel cuts are popular ecause it doesn’t cost them much politically.


    -John Lilyea

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    1. As in other threads active today, consider the source.

    2. Time actively campaigned against the draft and celebrated its suspension.

    3. Oh, and btw Time Magazine editors and staff? Two questions: Are the 9-11 'First Responders' over compensated--are they 'just another special interest group? And, can you tell us of any other cabinet level branch of government that has had its budget slashed other than Defense and Veteran's Affairs? Hmm?

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    Waywickedcool Federal Ninja Laconian's Avatar
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    When the US did away with the draft and went to an all volunteer force, the government/politicians, in fact, whether by design or not created a military caste, separate and apart from the rest of the nation. For the last 12+ years, the Nation hasn't been at war, the military has. Sure some folks waved flags and sent goodie boxes (and those were great gestures of kindness) or went out of their way to help returning vets and some folks (including some of the ones that authorized the sending of people into harm's way) protested the 'wars', but a lot of folks could have cared less. Even with the intense involvement of the Reserves and Air & National Guard in the GWOT and deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan, the vast majority of Americans don't even know someone in the military let alone someone who went downrange. Before the GWOT it was even more pro-nounced.

    It is the way it has been and the way it will stay.

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    Senior Member Bloo's Avatar
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    This is how many liberals in the US view soldiers, NYT just finally feels confident enough to say it. The new heroes of America are the people on foodstamps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloo View Post
    The new heroes of America are the people on foodstamps.
    Said no one. Ever.

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    Well the same can be said pretty much of the baby boomers now.

    They paid into the welfare system for pretty much of the lives, and now the expect their promised benefits, without giving a **** that the new generation will carry this burden on their overtaxed backs. Welfare system is overburdened and it's at a point of breaking down.

    Or pensioners in Detroit protesting the federal city manager from cutting down their benefits. The city is bankrupt and whatever can be cut will have to be cut if you ever wanna see Detroit to resemble a somewhat normal city.

    Nothing new here.

    Gov't does as it needs to do.

    My brother lamented that due to the sequester training was cut, supplies were cut etc. When I pointed out the trillions of debt we have, he understood but was pissed of anyway. What do you expect?

    You promise somebody xyz benefits and later renege on your promise. People will be pissed and people will be selfish.

    It will be same across any group that feels that they have been cheated. Military or no.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkyUS View Post
    Well the same can be said pretty much of the baby boomers now.

    They paid into the welfare system for pretty much of the lives, and now the expect their promised benefits, without giving a **** that the new generation will carry this burden on their overtaxed backs. Welfare system is overburdened and it's at a point of breaking down.

    Or pensioners in Detroit protesting the federal city manager from cutting down their benefits. The city is bankrupt and whatever can be cut will have to be cut if you ever wanna see Detroit to resemble a somewhat normal city.

    Nothing new here.

    Gov't does as it needs to do.

    My brother lamented that due to the sequester training was cut, supplies were cut etc. When I pointed out the trillions of debt we have, he understood but was pissed of anyway. What do you expect?

    You promise somebody xyz benefits and later renege on your promise. People will be pissed and people will be selfish.

    It will be same across any group that feels that they have been cheated. Military or no.
    The problem is the fact that Social Security isn't an "entitlement": people have paid into it for decades, via their taxes. It is not the same as Welfare, where you pay into it but probably (hopefully) will never use it. SS is a retirement benefit that should be returned to the elderly when their time for need arrises. Politicians made the mistake of using SS to pay for other programs (which it was never designed to do).

    Anyone in my (the younger) generation who is expecting any type of government welfare is a laughable fool. There will be nothing left for me when I reach retirement age. But then again, I don't depend on the government to take of me as I can do so (far more efficiently) than the Federal Government can.

    There is also no other "group" that are actively placed in scenarios where other people are actively trying to kill or maim them. That alone is a very big, very distinct difference from any other interest group in America.

    I say that as someone who has never served.

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    Senior Member Mark Sman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkyUS View Post
    They paid into the welfare system for pretty much of the lives, .
    Many did, and they will get out what they put in. A great many dodged this under the table and with other tax tricks. They will not get paid. But they will expect it. Ain't gonna happen.

    If you paid in you should get paid out, absolutely.

    As to mistreatment of veterans. It is the same people that are the problem today as were a problem in the 60s, 70s and 80s.

    And I know many of you won't believe it, but these same people were scum in the 50s as well. And I've been told, and believe it, that these same people were scum in the 40s and 30s too.

    Do your best to see that vets get a decent shot at a job, full VA and retirement benefits, and if somebody is having a tough day there damn well may be a reason. Those of you who know how to help with that can help with that there too.

    Other than that, Time can go take a flying . . .

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    Cousin Belkie AIG's Avatar
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    To be honest the points raised here were also raised by Republican representatives. And I think I agree with those points, mostly.

    People are conveniently ignoring a few points here, which relate to what SkyUS said above:
    1) The cuts were proposed by the US military, not the politicians.

    2) The benefits US military personnel are in actually going to get are considerably higher than what they were promised in the begging: i.e. there have been raises in wages and benefits over the past years that were in excess of what was expected at the time those people were promised those benefits.

    3) Hence the "cuts" are on the absolute level, which is in fact, higher than the baseline level they were promised.

    4) The cuts are pretty small. Few people want to come out and admit just what the benefits the individuals in question make, and what the cuts actually represent. Somewhere I heard (on the radio I believe, from one of the GOP representatives defending these measures), that the total benefit package being discussed here was over $1.2 million, and the cuts represented about $87k of that. This $1.2 million in benefits, BTW, was considerably higher than what they were promised, given projected growth in wages at the time they signed up.

    5) As SkyUS says, this is the same with EVERYONE who has been promised benefits by the Federal government. The Fed made promises to everyone that eventually it cannot keep. And it has cut the same benefits from everyone else too (its Federal employees). And lets face it, we are ALL going to have to forego what was "promised" to us, because there is no way they can pay it. And if we want to keep this Federal government functioning, then yes, we are all going to forego. Everyone knows that SS will not be there for them in 30 years time. It's not a matter of if. And I am willing to make that sacrifice, for example.

    6) And if you're not, than keep this in mind next time you feel the urge to criticize excessive government expenditures and next time you feel the urge to vote for Federal positions which promise you more and more benefits and goodies without regard for where the money will come from.

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    Doing away with the draft did NOT create a martial caste. What it did was force the military to rely on a volunteer demographic, the way it has had to do for most of American history and most of America's wars. George (the American) led a small minority of colonials in revolt against George (the Brit). He won using volunteers who out thought and out fought mercenaries (George the Brits Hessian countrymen) and English Redcoats who--as good as they were--were not in North America by choice.

    Using only the volunteer demographic brings the Pentagon motivated, enthusiastic, intelligent and educated professional soldiers. Most of them are of the demographic that Laconian considers our martial caste but many of them are inner-city kids, Puerto Ricans and Mexicans, foreigners craving citizenship, etc...

    And don't forget that smart-talking Bronx tough and the quietly competent Juice fella in all the old WW2 and Korean War movies. Neither of them was from the Lone Star State.

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    Senior Member Bloo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harghill1718 View Post
    Said no one. Ever.
    You should see my campus. Foodstamps/Abortions/Pot are the new holy trinity of what makes you a good person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by captainsquarters View Post
    many of them are inner-city kids, Puerto Ricans and Mexicans, foreigners craving citizenship, etc....
    You may want to double check the statement and actually see who makes up the recruit pool for the CURRENT US military.

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