To the Israelis and those who have served in UN-forces.
This is for the Israelis and others that have served in UN-missions. Specially if you have served in the UNIFIL-mission.
I was down in South Lebanon as a Combat Engineer in 1986 and 1987.
Sometimes we had our clashes with the IDF and SLA. On my first tour, 2 guys in my battalion got injured by IDF after they had shot at them with two grenades from a Merkava with flechette-ammo. A miracle that they survived and only 2 out of 10 getting hit.
Over the years many UN-soldiers have been killed by the IDF, normally from mistakes, but also intensionally.
My question is; How did the IDF look upon UN-soldiers in Lebanon? Did they consider them as the "enemy" or just as some annoying "bystanders".
The reason I ask is because I know that the Norwegian battalion stopped AND arrested a lot of infiltrators heading for the Israeli boarder or Israeli positions. And for that we were sometimes "rewarded" with shelling from the IDF.
Weird if you ask me...
First, the IDF is no longer in Lebanon.
Secondly, you probably know about the abducation of the 3 soldiers by Hizbullah terrorist, supported by the UN peacekeeping force from India.
The Israelis see UN troops cooperating with the terrorists and therefore sees them as ENEMY.
Officialy, they are not considered ENEMY, but a neutral force. But unofficialy, Israeli are mad at the UN for its anti-Israeli bias and its protection and support to Hizbullah terrorists.
Hey asshole!
What the **** are you talking about? Anti-Israeli bias my ass. The UN might not like Israel and the IDF because they never listen to UN. Of all the country`s in the Middle East, Israel is the one who has broken the most UN resolutions. And they``ve killed so many Arabs over the years that, I think, the IDF should be disarmed and a UN force sent to bloc it off from the Arab country`s. As far as I am conserned, the IDF is one of the most criminal military forces in the world!
Ehhh. It was not my intention to start a "Lets fistfight, right here, right now!!"-situation.
Please behave in a civil manner. I am specially after the Israeli soldiers point of view, and also the UN-soldiers. WITHOUT the usual treaths and bad language.
Desert Sloth - good thing it's the norwegian battalion is the one deployed in south lebanon, and not the canadian one. i don't want to think about the results of such deployment...
i could'nt care less about your opinion, because it comes out of a wrong place. back in april 2002, the IDF went into jenin refugee camp and lost 13 soldiers in battle - a death easily avoided if fighter planes and arty bombed the place down to rubble.
that's right - the same planes US AND CANADA deployed in afghanistan and were used massively. who are you, mister, to come preach about war crimes?! do you even remember the wedding ceremony bombed by your guys, with dozens of casualties?!
or should i remind again the incident of kidnapping 3 wounded israely soldiers under the very eyes of UN peacekeepers? where the hell were they, "keeping the peace"?
i don't remember UN secretary general outraged by this or by hizbullah's use of fake UN vehicles for the kidnapping. i do remember him bold-face lying to the kidnapped soldiers's families when they met.
so please - give us a break!
Re: To the Israelis and those who have served in UN-forces.
First of all, please allow me to introduce my self: I served in the IDF North command during the 90’s and let’s say I know the UN pretty good.Originally Posted by Ichhabe
The IDF IS NOT referring the UN as enemy. But we know for a fact that we can’t count on the UN to stop the enemy – i.e. if a UN soldier see a Hizbullah member attempting to cross the border/fire rockets etc we CAN’T be sure he will try to stop him. (but every time they saw an IDF patrol they alerted everyone)
During 1996 there was a big military operation in Lebanon which ended with 100 dead in a UN post after the IDF fired at it – I guess you wonder why?
Ok, trust me or not, it’s up to you – this is as close as you will ever get to the truth, simply because I WAS THERE.
The IDF declared every UN post as a “no fire zone” in order to prevent casualties among UN soldiers and civilians who will use their posts as shelters. (The post it self and a few hundred meters surrounding it)
During that day Hizbullah members used this “protection” to shell Israeli cities knowingly that the IDF won’t fire at them because they are too close the UN post.
They fired right outside the post while the UN soldiers DID NOTHING to stop them until there was no other option but to shell the terrorists. (hoping not to hit the post itself)
If the UN soldiers weren’t protecting the terrorists and they were driving them away from the posts fence none of this would have happen.
NO ONE ORDERED TO TARGET THE POST INTENTIALLY!!!
Before, during and after this operation the IDF kept an open channel with the UN to prevent such incidents.
As you know 3 soldiers were kidnapped under UN protection by Hizbullah AFTER Israel did as UN asked and left Lebanon…
Today the Hizbullah is firing AA fire into Israeli cities under the UN protection (again) (fire which already killed civilians)
So I guess you can understand why Israelis don’t LOVE the UN, but it was never considered as enemy…
Sorry man, my bad.
No bud, you give me a break
Jenin Refugee camp: Israel lost 13 soldiers. How many Palistinians were killed? How many had homes destroyed? How many Israeli homes were bulldozed or blown up during the intifadas? Don't get me rong, I don't support terrorism, but Israel doesn't deal with the problem properly.
Peace keepers are not allowed to intervene unless they are fired upon. Examples: Rawanda and Shrbenitsa (Spelling?)
Don't even try to compare the Canadian military to the IDF. How many war crimes have the canadians comitted post WW2? Only one, when a young Sommali who had snuck into the camp was tortured to death.
That was one person. The IDF doesn't let the media come too close, so we don't know.
The UN Secretary general probably doesn't care about those Israeli soldiers, because thats three guys. In Israel, there are so many Palistinians living in refugee camps in very bad conditions. So those three soldiers aren't worth anything in a country with so much injustice.
Hey Hood, I think we need an "Israeli/Palestinian Cage Match" forum
What we really need is 24 hours without the media in Gaza, and then this "Israeli/Palestinian Cage Match" forum won't be needed any more.Hey Hood, I think we need an "Israeli/Palestinian Cage Match" forum
(Not mentioning it will save lives)
I can give you the numbers: 23 Israeli soldier were killed (13 in one ambush), 52-56 Palestinians were killed (the highest number of civilians killed which was claimed by anyone was 22), about 130 houses were bulldozes (most of them were wired), and every Human Rights report wrote it clear: there was no massacre in Jenin!Jenin Refugee camp: Israel lost 13 soldiers. How many Palistinians were killed? How many had homes destroyed? How many Israeli homes were bulldozed or blown up during the intifadas? Don't get me rong, I don't support terrorism, but Israel doesn't deal with the problem properly.
And again, the UN behaivor on the 3-kidnapped soldiers was disgraceful.
First, it helped Hizbullah doing the abduction.
Secondly, they cover out the evidence and lied to the families of the soldiers.
Thirdly, when it was revelead they got a tape documanting the kidnapped they refused to show it to Israel in order (listen carefully) to protect the kidnappers' identities!
This is something that Israel is rightfully unwilling to forgive (not that the UN ever aplogized or investigated this misconduct).
Jenin is just one situation. And in any case more Palistians were killed. But I guess that goes for any war where arabs fight on one side: They always take more casualties.
By the By, to talk here do you have to have been part of IDF or a soldier in a UN mission?
Sloth-
The Palestinians often count "freedom fighters" as civilian casualties. The IDF has some of the most stringent rules-of-engagement on the planet. They include first ignoring being fired upon and only taking cover. Then come verbal warnings, warning shots and THEN will they fire a few rounds in response. However, when you have THIS sort of situation
With women and children surrounding armed terrorists, there's a great chance that civilians will get hit. Come to expect that from Hamas, Hizbullah, etc..
And, as has been said, the IDF could level the West Bank and Gaza without risking one Israeli. They don't. It's a war down there. The Israelis have tried MANY times for peace- but peace is a long and slow process, and every time some HAMAS terrorists can't wait and blows up a bus, disco, cafe, etc. and then the IDF goes to work. Many of the security checkpoints that the palestinians object to were only erected after suicide bombings as just another safety barrier for innocent Israelis.
Exactly. You don't know. Why are you believing palestinian accusations? In jennin they accussed Isreal in committing a genocide, in digging mass graves, killing 500 people. There is a famous movie taken from IDF UAV showing palestinians run with a strecher with a 'body'. The body was taken to a side alley, where the 'body' rose from the strecher, and walked to participate in the demonstration, while the strecher crew went to pick up another 'body'. That's just one example of the lies they spread. And you take their side. Suit Yourself.
Well, that speaks of your human values more than I can. Have a good day.So those three soldiers aren't worth anything in a country with so much injustice.
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