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Thread: Turkish Armed Forces - New posters, read first post

  1. #511
    Banned user Kontra1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rister
    The Turks have a deep sense of nationalistic pride and love for their country. They are a very sincere people who place a high value on honor. They rely strongly on group solidarity, or trust in one's own group. Such groups would include one's village, family, friends, or schoolmates.

    Turks are also a very sensitive people. For example, they do not appreciate the criticisms that Westerners sometimes write about them or about their past brutal ways. Their sensitivity can be clearly seen by comparing two proverbs of a similar theme. In the United States, a well-known proverb says, "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me." The Turkish proverb says, "The hurt of a stick dies away, but words hurt forever."

    Believe me..we often criticise ourselves more than westerners.What we can't stand is the Western double-standarts in their criticsm.Examples?? I'd rahter NOT start a whole new debate in this thread

    Other than that...your input is pretty accurate...words do hurt more than sticks for us.

    ....and it should be like that for honorable people.


    Kontra1

  2. #512
    Virtual Warrior Inc. Argyll's Avatar
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    Grow up guys!!

    Kontra I pointed out to you that Turkey was created in 1921 from an Empire,and that because you were created from an Empire could it not be feasable that the Kurds could do something similar?

    That is not insulting

    It was a bona fide question........there are many who believe the Kurds will one day have a country called Kurdistan.......it was some members here who went off on a tangent because of this,with statements about the Turkish Military being the sharpest in the world,and totally combat proven,yet when the questions asked where was it tested,there was no answers.....you have been involved in the same low intensity Operations against Terror groups as what's currently going on.


    That's not an insult.............it's an observation.........If you feel you have been insulted then the problem is within your interpretations........I've also said I admire your patriotism..........hardly the response from one who insults........

    I am openly saying to you and to the other forum members you were not insulted,I was more critical than insulting.........perhaps because English is not your first language you're not interpreting very well,I don't have to do degree on Turkish history to fully understand your way of thinking,I look to former Eastern bloc countries,and I see so many more countries having sprung up from within a country........Look at Yugoslavia,now split into more than 6 different countries.

    Rister made a very good post..........very accurate in more ways than one


    So keep posting the pictures,and stop feeling like you're being persecuted,or singled out...........I have had similar disagreements with Greeks!!!!!

  3. #513
    Banned user Kontra1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argyll
    Grow up guys!!

    Kontra I pointed out to you that Turkey was created in 1921 from an Empire,and that because you were created from an Empire could it not be feasable that the Kurds could do something similar?
    NOT from ANY empire...from OUR OWN empire

    That is not insulting

    It was a bona fide question........there are many who believe the Kurds will one day have a country called Kurdistan.......it was some members here who went off on a tangent because of this,with statements about the Turkish Military being the sharpest in the world,and totally combat proven,yet when the questions asked where was it tested,there was no answers.....you have been involved in the same low intensity Operations against Terror groups as what's currently going on.
    I'm counting on you to experience first hand what we're capable of when you're down there


    That's not an insult.............it's an observation.........If you feel you have been insulted then the problem is within your interpretations........I've also said I admire your patriotism..........hardly the response from one who insults........
    Thanks(!)

    I am openly saying to you and to the other forum members you were not insulted,I was more critical than insulting.........perhaps because English is not your first language you're not interpreting very well,I don't have to do degree on Turkish history to fully understand your way of thinking,I look to former Eastern bloc countries,and I see so many more countries having sprung up from within a country........Look at Yugoslavia,now split into more than 6 different countries.

    Rister made a very good post..........very accurate in more ways than one


    So keep posting the pictures,and stop feeling like you're being persecuted,or singled out...........I have had similar disagreements with Greeks!!!!![/quote]

  4. #514
    Senior Member Clearday-TRForce's Avatar
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    It was a bona fide question........there are many who believe the Kurds will one day have a country called Kurdistan.......it was some members here who went off on a tangent because of this,with statements about the Turkish Military being the sharpest in the world,and totally combat proven,yet when the questions asked where was it tested,there was no answers.....you have been involved in the same low intensity Operations against Terror groups as what's currently going on.

    -terror organizations??? mate, PKK is the worst and biggest terrorist organization that people see...35000 people had been killed by them. We are figthing with them from 1980s to nowadays...still same...some countries (some europe countries and some arap countries) have helped them.

    -
    there are many who believe the Kurds will one day have a country called Kurdistan
    and u are one of them, We say "lets see who will have an independence bla blas there"...thats all.




    regards

  5. #515

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    THE TURKISH CASE

    Modern Turkey emerged out of the ashes of the Ottoman Empire, which ruled over three continents. Nationalism was a disruptive ideology that tore the Empire asunder. Influenced by the ideas of the French Revolution and dissatisfied with the Ottoman administration, diverse peoples struggled to carve nation-states out of the Ottoman Empire during the 19th and early 20th centuries. Turkish nationalism thus grew out of two conditions: On the one hand, battles with insurgent nationalities encouraged a sense of cohesion among the remaining peoples and territories. On the other hand, at the end of the 20th century, the Ottoman Empire was reduced to mainly Turks and other Muslims.

    Nationalities in the Ottoman administrative system were classified not on the basis of ethnicity, but religion. Within the religious groups, ethnically different entities existed. The loss of Turkey's cosmopolitan character, together with vast chunks of territory, left its imprint on Turkish political culture. Fear of partition and subversion constantly haunted the Turkish elite and bred growing suspicion of foreigners and their sinister domestic collaborators who wanted to divide up the country and undermine national unity.

    The founding elite of Republican Turkey was composed of the young military and civilian officers of the Ottoman administration. The Republic was created by a bureaucratic elite with strong centralist tendencies and a desire to bury the dynastic and semi-theocratic past. They wanted to make the new regime national and secular, which would legitimize their position as the new ruling elite.

    The new leaders believed that they were charged with the mission of breaking with the past and creating a new nation. The Ottoman era and everything associated with it, except a few glorious moments of conquest and imperial grandeur, was condemned or discounted in history books and official parlance. The disconnection of society from its past allowed the ruling elite to see the Turkish people as an entity ready to be molded according to their vision of what a society and nation should be. This was to be a revolution from above.

    In search of a unifying myth, long forgotten roots of the pre-Ottoman, pre-Islamic era were re-introduced. However, this process was construed not as a scientific endeavor but as ideological glue for national cohesion. In the absence of a medieval high culture that could be labeled `Turkish,' the nationalist elite found their glory in a history that never was. The search for, and consolidation of, a new national identity were carried to such extremes in the 1930s that theories like the Sun Theory of Language were concocted. According to this "theory," all languages emerged out of Turkish. As a reminder of those days, the presidential banner consists of a sun representing the Turkish Republic encircled by 16 stars, symbolizing the Turkish states that were presumably created by Turks throughout history This fabricated glorious past was a panacea for Turkish pride wounded by the loss of empire and reincarnated as a poor, backward society that was occupied during the First World War.

    In pursuit of legitimacy for the new regime, two things happened. First, ties with religion were cut. In a matter of 10 years, the state abolished the spiritual pinnacle of the Sunni Muslim world, the Caliphate, severing ties not only with Turkey's Islamic past but also with the Islamic world, which nominally recognized the Ottoman sultan as the head of Islam. The Republic adopted the Latin alphabet for use in Turkish. A parallel program to purge the language of Arabic and Persian loanwords was put into effect. Swiss, French and Italian laws replaced Ottoman ones that had been partly based on religion. The Republic discouraged traditional attire and secularized the educational system. All autonomous religious institutions and their financial resources were brought under government control. However, all of these administrative reforms to change society and facilitate secularism remained basically limited to urban centers, which contained only 20 percent of the Turkish population at the time. Until the 1950s, the bulk of Turkey's rural population remained untouched, isolated and traditional, while in the cities, modernity permeated most aspects of social life. This change created a volatile social fabric where the new and old, the modern and the traditional, East and West, the secular and the anti-secular, and the rich and the poor lived side by side with few points of contact.

    Second, the elite set about to establish a new national Turkish identity Just as it was planned that secularization would emancipate the nation from the fetters of religion, Turkish identity would iron out ethnic and cultural differences and produce a homogenized population. This strategy led to the policy of denying the existence of national minorities in Turkey All existing Muslim minorities were granted a kind of Turkishness. For example, the largest non-Turkish Muslim minority in Anatolia-the Kurds became Mountain Turks. Paradoxically, however, by forcing all Muslims into a Turkish identity, the new regime was also associating Turkish identity with Islam, which was contrary to its secularization project. This built-in contradiction would later make it easier for non-state actors to politicize religion. 'Aren't we all Muslims, so why do we argue whether we agree on the principles of religion (Islam) to guide social life or not?" became the most commonly asked question in the political debate of the 1990s.

    The Turkification process had already begun during the period of the Young Turks in the latter years of the Ottoman Empire. The Young Turks learned the power of nationalism from the struggle of Ottoman peoples whom they fought against to keep the remaining parts of the Empire together. By the end of the First World War and the Turko-Greek War, which lasted from 1919 to 1922, there were few non-Muslim peoples left in Anatolia, which subsequently became the Turkish motherland. The majority of Turkey's two million Armenians were deported to Syria and Mesopotamia in 1915 by the Ottoman Young Turk administration, so that they would not side with advancing Russian troops and declare independence in eastern Turkey Deportations continued until 1918 and it has been estimated that as many as 1.5 million Armenians died or were killed en routes The remaining Greeks, who had not fled after the Turko-Greek War, were exchanged for Turks (in fact Muslims) in Greece under a treaty that went into effect in 1924. This homogenization of the population helped the Republican elite declare the rest of the population Turkish.

    However, the initial aim of the founding elite was not to create an ethnically "pure" nation. Cognizant of the fact that Anatolia was still more cosmopolitan than was officially recognized and that they were the heirs of a multi-national, multi-cultural empire, they named the state the Republic of Turkey, rather than the Turkish Republic. The founding elites were attempting to substitute Turkish identity for Ottoman identity However, Ottomanism was a supra-identity that allowed sub or cultural/ethnic identities to coexist with it. Ottoman (the house of Osman) was the name of the ruling dynasty, which gave its name to the all-encompassing state. Hence, it was ethnically neutral. Turkish identity, in contrast, was ethnic in nature.

    Because of Turkey's restrictive national identification, trouble and restlessness in southeastern Anatolia was always associated with Kurdish identity by both Ankara and the Kurds themselves. Kurds believed that all their difficulties were the result of their Kurdish identity. Ethnic differences became the basis of sour relations between the Kurdish community and the central government, although not the Turkish people in general. This adversity, however, did not affect the Kurds who did not politically emphasize their ethnic identity They, as all citizens of Turkey, had access to education, politics and the highest posts in the government, including the army, which is practically, though not legally, denied to non-Muslim minorities. The poverty and isolation of southeastern Anatolia, which is predominantly populated by Kurds, is the least integrated part of the country and further emphasized the Kurds' feelings of alienation. These factors provided little motivation for many rural Turks and Kurds to accept Ankara's values which they felt to be both geographically and ideologically distant.

    Neither the secularization nor the Turkification of the nation was negotiated with the people in a serious way The Grand National Assembly, Turkey's national parliament, was an elite club and held unchallenged power. The Kurdish elite, mainly made up of tribal chieftains and large landholders, was co-opted and enjoyed the privileged position of parliamentarians. The people were unorganized, powerless and thus did not challenge the philosophy of the regime or the way in which reforms and sociocultural projects were implemented.

    Decades of indoctrination and a heavy dose of nationalist education created a deep sense of pride in being a Turk. Moreover, citizens of the Republic had objective reasons to be proud. They were the heirs of a major world empire and had created a new state by rescuing their country from the victors of the First World War. Through significant economic and political reforms, they were advancing on the road toward contemporary Western civilization. Although the country was poor, its pragmatic policies saved it from the devastation of the Second World War.

    However, the euphoria started to dissipate in the second half of the 1950s. Problems caused by political authoritarianism and the limitations of an import-substitution economy were further exacerbated by the failure to manage massive urban migration of people from the countryside. Wide protests staged by labor organizations, professional and student groups began to disrupt the country.

  6. #516

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    Oh man, actually just yesterday there was a National Geographic Special on the Uyghurs in China. When I was watching it I was listening to their words and amazingly, there were a significant amount of them I understood. It was really amazing that the language was so similar despite being so geographically seperated for so long.

  7. #517
    Banned user Kontra1's Avatar
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    I'm all ears for programs like that.I still freak out how much I can understand and how similar the language still is.

    I guess that's why they say; One from Turkey can travel accross all those Turkic nations without any communication problems.

    Couple days ago the President of East Turkistan in exile was on one of the Turkish TV channels for a interview...I had no prblems to understand what he was saying at all.I think they have the closest dialect to ours in Turkey.

    Check it out

    http://www.turkicworld.org/

    Kontra1

  8. #518
    Senior Member theg's Avatar
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    kontra bro super foto and super info. thnks

  9. #519
    Senior Member Clearday-TRForce's Avatar
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    well,it goes different ways,lets continue in the way of military,here s the projects of Turkish Military ongoing and future...


    [size=5]Completed Projects[/size]

    -AN / ALQ-178(V)3 System (SPEWS-I) Spares
    -Basic Trainer Aircraft
    -Black Hawk General Purpose Helicopter
    -Communications & Out of Communications ESM/ECM Mobile
    -Communication Direction Finding Systems
    -Engine Test Cell Procurement Program
    -Fleet Replenishment Ship
    -Hf/Ssb Radios
    -I. and II. Batch Attack Helikopters
    -I.Batch F-16 Electronic Warfare System
    -Inflatable Rigid Boats
    -Light Transport Aircraft
    -Maritime Training Aircraft
    -Mobil Radar Complexes
    -Multiple Launch Rocket System (Mlrs) And Rockets
    -Procurement and Integration/Installation of Infrared Counter Measure (IRCM) Systems
    -Rocket Industries
    -Seadoo Boat
    -Special Forces Helicopter Procurement and Modernisation
    -Tactical Wheeled Armoured Vehicles
    -TAF KKBS Message Handling System (MEDAS)
    -Transmission Test Stand Procurement (TTS)
    -Unmanned Air Vehicles
    -Wheeled Armoured Vehicles





    [size=5]Ongoing and Future Projects[/size]

    AIR PLATFORMS


    -AS532 AL / UL COUGAR HELICOPTERS DEPOT LEVEL MAINTENANCE (DSB(C))
    -ATTACK AND TACTICAL RECONNAISSANCE HELICOPTER (ATAK)
    -A400M TRANSPORT AIRCRAFT
    -COAST GUARD HELICOPTER
    -CO-PRODUCTION PROJECT OF 30 COUGAR HELICOPTERS
    -F-5 A/C AVIONICS AND STRUCTURAL MODERNISATION
    -GAINING DEPOT LEVEL MAINTENANCE (DLM) CAPABILITY FOR S-70A BLACKHAWK HELICOPTERS
    -JOINT STRIKE FIGHTER - JSF
    -MARITIME PATROL & MARITIME SURVEILLANCE AIRCRAFT (MELTEM)
    -MARITIME PATROL AND SURVEILLANCE AIRCRAFT (MELTEM-3)
    -PEACE EAGLE - TURKISH AIRBORNE EARLY WARNING & CONTROL (TAEW&C)
    -PRIMARY AND BASIC TRAINER- BTEU
    -S-70B SEA HAWK HELICOPTER PROCUREMENT
    -UNMANNED AIR VEHICLES




    ELECTRONIC SYSTEMS


    -Communications & Out of Communications ESM / ECM, HF
    -Communications Direction Finding, V / UHF Communications Jamming Systems
    -Communications & Out of Communications ESM / ECM Radar Direction Finding and Jamming Systems
    -Electro-Optical (Eo) Reconnaissance And Surveillance Satellite System Project (E-39)
    -Helicopter Electronic Warfare Suite (HEWS) (Procurement of RWR, RF Jammer, LWR and SCPU Sub-Systems and Suite Integration) (E.17)
    -Integrated Maritime Surveillance System (IMSS)
    -Procurement and Installation of Infrared Suppressor Systems
    SOJ
    -Turkish Mobile Radar Complexes (TMRC)
    -X-band Turkish Military Satellite Communications System (TMSCS)
    -Yarasa




    NAVAL PLATFORMS


    -FAST PATROL BOATS (CUSTOM BOATS)
    -FAST PATROL BOATS (HEALTH SERVICE BOATS)
    -FAST PATROL BOATS (3. BATCH)
    -MINE HUNTING VESSELS ACQUSITION
    -PATROL AND UNTISUBMARINE WARFARE SHIP ACQUISITION (MILGEM)
    -90 TONS COAST GUARD BOATS ACQUISITION



    ITEP


    -ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY INDUSTRIAL PARK AND AIRPORT (ITEP) PROJECT



    and it s the "bonus"







    regards

  10. #520
    Member Sleepy's Avatar
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    Thanks for the pics, interesting to see the turks.

  11. #521
    Senior Member Clearday-TRForce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleepy
    Thanks for the pics, interesting to see the turks.
    thanx, interesting???what s the meaning of int...???

    anyway...


    Here s Turkish Defence Companies;


    -AKSA
    -ALP HAVACILIK
    -AREMSAN
    -ASELSAN A.S.
    -AYESAS A.S.
    -BMC
    -FMC-Nurol Savunma Sanayii A.S.
    -HAVELSAN A.S.
    -HAVELSAN Teknoloji Radar
    -KALEKALIP
    -KAREL
    -Mikes A.S.
    -Milsoft A.S.
    -ONUR Mühendislik
    -OTOKAR
    -OYTEK
    -ROKETSAN
    -SARSILMAZ
    -SAVRONIK
    -SBS
    -Sinyal Sanayii ve Tic. A.S.
    -STM
    -TAI
    -TELESIS
    -TORGEM Shipyard
    -Transvaro Elektron Aletleri A.S.
    -TUBITAK Bilten
    -TUBITAK MAM
    -TUBITAK SAGE



    some of them;


    Turkish Alp Aviation Company,

    Alp Aviation is a make to blueprint company which has multi axis (up to 5 axes) precision machining & CMM measurement capability with in-house customer approved special processes.

    With this structure, Alp Aviation also has all required quality system approvals to deliver the finish machined parts & assemblies to its customers in the terms of reasonable cost, quality product and on time delivery.

    With this global business, Alp Aviation serves world aerospace industry mostly to international customers such as;

    -Sikorsky Aircraft Corporation - USA
    -Pratt & Whitney Corporation - USA
    -Goodrich Landing Gear Corporation - USA
    -Kaman Aerospace Corporation - USA
    -Helicopter Support International (HSI) - USA
    -Air Industries Corporation - USA
    -FHL Cleverham - United Kingdom
    -Carmel Forging - Israel
    -Eaton Corporation - USA
    -TAI - Turkey
    -Aero Vodochody - Czech Republic




    Turkish Yonca-Onuk Company,

    S-36 Class



    http://www.yonca-onuk.com/future_nor.htm



    to be continue...



    regards

  12. #522
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    Turkey is a big spender on the international arms market, hence can they negotiate nice deals to get part of foreign projects.

  13. #523
    Senior Member Clearday-TRForce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turan8
    Oh man, actually just yesterday there was a National Geographic Special on the Uyghurs in China. When I was watching it I was listening to their words and amazingly, there were a significant amount of them I understood. It was really amazing that the language was so similar despite being so geographically seperated for so long.

    Me too...I have watched a TV from Uygur (Xinjiang-now China's region) provience...I have understood full of them what they talked...It s so strange for us to understand most of Central Asian countries people...But it s clear they are all Turks with different tribes...( a source says they are over 200 million in the region...)




    regards

  14. #524
    Senior Member Clearday-TRForce's Avatar
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    At Le Bourget , Pratt & Whitney - Turkish Kalekalıp signed a letter of intent to award part of the production of the F 35's F 135 engine.



    Kalekalıp will manufacture compressor shrouds.These components are in areas critical to the engine's operation and performance.The awards to Kalekalıp were made after a six-month long selection process of trying to find suppliers in Turkey that could provide components made to the demanding tolerances of the F135 design at competitive pricing.

    As of today, the F135 engine has accumulated more than 3,000 test hours as part of the system development and demonstration (SDD) phase of the program, which is addition to the 3,500 hours that had already been run during pre-SDD testing. Pratt &Whitney will deliver the first F135 engine to Lockheed Martin in August 2005 and will achieve inital flight release in January 2006. The F135 will be sole engine system to power the first flight of the F-35,which is scheduled for August next year,12 months after the first engine is delivered.





    Kalekalıp is the leading company of Turkey in the production of sensitive mechanical parts. From design to production, the automation systems owned by the company have been made available to the defence and aerospace industry.

    As hardware in Computer Assisted Design (CAD), Kalekalıp uses the silicone graphics business stations and PCs, and as software, it uses the pro-/engineer advanced design and mold design of Parametric Technologies Corporation and autocad. Designs created with the help of these software packages are later transferred to the computer-assisted manufacturing software (CAM ) of pro/engineering called pro/manufacturing, and on to dnc connected and cnc wood-shaving manufacturing units and the parts are processed in a hands-off manner. Furthermore, there is a central computer system where every kind of material is monitored starting from the moment of its entry into the factory and where all kinds of resource planning, monitoring and reporting such as capacity, material and labour power are carried out. This is how the Defence and Aerospace department can execute all kinds of simulations of a part in the proposal stage and access accurate data in terms time frames and costs.

    In a globalising world, Corporate Resource Planning (ERP) is employed for faster production, quality improvement, cost reduction and for serving our customers better than our competitors.

    QUALITY CERTIFICATES AND APPROVALS

    -EN ISO 9001:2000 Certificate
    TSE Certificate
    -DVGVV-Germany Approval
    -NMI-Netherlands Approval
    -UZB-Uzbekistan Approval
    -BDS-Bulgaria Approval
    -Ghost-Russia Approval
    -İGDAŞ Approval
    -Botaş Approval
    -American Welding Society
    -AQAP 120-Military Approval
    -6 Sigma Practises



    regards

  15. #525
    Banned user Kontra1's Avatar
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    Thanks theg























    Bozkurt Denktas



















































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