Arabs at War

[Gon4z]

You are reinforcing my point I do understand that English is not your first language so perhaps you just misunderstood.

I am British, both parents are British but I was born and raised the first 10 years of my life in a different country so I spoke 2 languages and English, and I understood you perfectly But the Iraq Iran war has nothing do with the Israeli wars, all of the Arabs countries militaries put together are not as strong as Israel’s, Because America keeps it well armed Whilst the Soviets don’t give a **** about Arabs why should or would they, they are already having hard time keeping their people from starving and let alone think of others, It didn’t help Iraq because it was a pointless war would satellites help America is they went to war with china humm I think not, or would Satellite photos help South Korea if the north was to attack, humm not that much, 2 evenly matched militaries can not beat each other, can the two north sided of the magnet attack no it’s a fact, so neither side was going to win, did it help Israel yep, what helped them more, the British attack on Egypt, Egypt’s lack of air support, Sanctions, oh and also the ability of being twice more equipped than the enemy, would satellite photos help Taiwan beat chain or would satellite photos would of helped Kosovo beat Serbia, No they help you when you out match the enemy, and not when your equal or worse than the enemy then they are no use.

[nu4idf]

I am British, both parents are British but I was born and raised the first 10 years of my life in a different country so I spoke 2 languages and English, and I understood you perfectly But the Iraq Iran war has nothing do with the Israeli wars, all of the Arabs countries militaries put together are not as strong as Israel’s, Because America keeps it well armed Whilst the Soviets don’t give a **** about Arabs why should or would they, they are already having hard time keeping their people from starving and let alone think of others, It didn’t help Iraq because it was a pointless war would satellites help America is they went to war with china humm I think not, or would Satellite photos help South Korea if the north was to attack, humm not that much, 2 evenly matched militaries can not beat each other, can the two north sided of the magnet attack no it’s a fact, so neither side was going to win, did it help Israel yep, what helped them more, the British attack on Egypt, Egypt’s lack of air support, Sanctions, oh and also the ability of being twice more equipped than the enemy, would satellite photos help Taiwan beat chain or would satellite photos would of helped Kosovo beat Serbia, No they help you when you out match the enemy, and not when your equal or worse than the enemy then they are no use.

Excuse me but Israel was not in any of the wars more armed then Egypt but yet with better training, use of weaponry(inguenity aka using super shermans(105mm) against 4th generation tanks and winning) and tactics were far superior than syrian, jordanian, iraqi, saudi and egyptian mass amounts of far superior equipment.satellites mean **** with out determination to want to keep your state free and Jewish! Am Ysrael Hai!

[Gon4z]

Excuse me but Israel was not in any of the wars more armed then Egypt but yet with better training, use of weaponry(inguenity aka using super shermans(105mm) against 4th generation tanks and winning) and tactics were far superior than syrian, jordanian, iraqi, saudi and egyptian mass amounts of far superior equipment.satellites mean **** with out determination to want to keep your state free and Jewish! Am Ysrael Hai!

Yep Egypt had 3 times more thanx than Israel in the 70's nut it had no air force, so most of those tanks were destroyed before they even reach the Israeli border by half way, They were fighting you with T-55 whilst you had several types of tanks, dozens of aircraft types...etc you should think about keeping you state safe by learning to live with your neighbors, and giving other equal rights... Determination and heart only can go so far, in the modern age what matters more is technology and who has the most fire power…

Doesn’t it say on the Toura you were slaves of the Faro once and you know what it is like to be one, so don’t enslave others, well you should get along with the Palestinians, stop building Inhumane walls and if history has thought us one things is that walls don’t keep people out, I know that the Palestinians make it hard sometimes for negotiations and that’s something Israel should do to help the Palestinian authorities bring them under control, my point is you It was wrong of you to go and invade Palestine out of no were, I do think that Jew have every right to live in the Holly land, but so do others and not just the Jews it’s a Holly land to 3 religions and all 3 should share it

[Connaught Ranger]

see if you wer a bit more educated you would know that terrorism dident exist until the 80's when the Palestinians first started using it,

Oh! so what were the IRA doing since the 1920 - 1968, 1970s, etc...etc... setting off bombs in England, and carrying out attacks against British Forces in Germany.

The Protestant UVF in Northern Ireland.

What was ETA in Spain doing for all those years?

The Palastinians came into the terrorism game when it became quite fashionable, with the PLO and hijacking aeroplanes, along with the Germans, the Japanese.

Not to mention all the small African "Liberation" army types, terrorising various sections of the country, I supose if a list was to be drawn up just starting from Post 1945 we would have a couple of hundred names on it, and not just the Palastinian PLO etc..

I suppose all of the above were only playing at being "soldiers." I suggest you do some basic research before making such statements, when it comes to "terrorism" a whole lot more nationalities have been involved than the Palastinians.

Connaught Ranger

[Gon4z]

Oh! so what were the IRA doing since the 1920 - 1968, 1970s, etc...etc... setting off bombs in England, and carrying out attacks against British Forces in Germany.

The Protestant UVF in Northern Ireland.

What was ETA in Spain doing for all those years?

The Palastinians came into the terrorism game when it became quite fashionable, with the PLO and hijacking aeroplanes, along with the Germans, the Japanese.

Not to mention all the small African "Liberation" army types, terrorising various sections of the country, I supose if a list was to be drawn up just starting from Post 1945 we would have a couple of hundred names on it, and not just the Palastinian PLO etc..

I suppose all of the above were only playing at being "soldiers." I suggest you do some basic research before making such statements, when it comes to "terrorism" a whole lot more nationalities have been involved than the Palastinians.

Connaught Ranger

No i think you should just look at what you said, terrorism started around 70's IRA was fighting after teh british after WWII befer that ther wer no conflicts, maby some shoot ups but tahts it... you just spoke a big bunch of crap

[Flamming_Python]

No i think you should just look at what you said, terrorism started around 70's IRA was fighting after teh british after WWII befer that ther wer no conflicts, maby some shoot ups but tahts it... you just spoke a big bunch of crap

Actually terrorism started in Russia during the secound half of the 19th centuary, when Revolutionaries struggling against the autocracy (of various political movements be they Socialist, Liberal, Nationalist or whatever) started trouble.

Huge amounts of arson were commited all around the country, and there were several failed assassination attempts on the Tsar via the use of bombs, etc... which ended up killing many people. It all pretty much cumiliated with the successfull assassination of Tsar Alexander II by a Polish suicide bomber (yes the Russian Empire underground organisations perfected the technique a while before the Arabs did ).

There were then further assassination attempts on the next Tsar, but the terrorism failed to get the support of the people, and was successfully supressed by Alexander III. Gradually it was realised that revolutionary movements that gained the people's support were the only hope for change in the Empire, rather than terrorist attacks.

The Islamic extermists have done things ass backwards though. They started off as revolutionary movements, but then faded into terrorist ones.

[Gon4z]

Actually terrorism started in Russia during the secound half of the 19th centuary, when Revolutionaries struggling against the autocracy (of various political movements be they Socialist, Liberal or whatever) started trouble. Many acts of arson were commited all around the country, and there were several failed assassination attempts on the Tsar via the use of bombs, etc... which ended up killing many people. It all pretty much cumiliated with the successfull assassination of Tsar Alexander II by a Polish suicide bomber (yes the Russian Empire underground organisations perfected the technique a while before the Arabs did ). There were then further assassination attempts on the next Tsar, but the terror movement lost the people's support, and was successfully supressed. Gradually it was realised that revolutianary movements that gained the people's support were the only hope for change in the Empire.

Ohh GOD if you start back tracking like that your going to end up finding out that terrorism started in the Roman empire, and it a way it did the Romans killed civilians burned houses, carried out assassinations...etc
Modern day terrorism is some what different and it didn’t turn into terrorism until around the 70's because before we had 2 world wars and then the Israeli Arab war Korea, and many others....
Suicide for a cause and to take some one with you was first done by the Japanese samurais way before the Russians did...
like I said if you keep back tracking hundreds and even thousands of years back your taking your self on a wild goose hunt...

[foxtrot023]

actually assasination comes from the middle east. Check the roots of the word

[Flamming_Python]

Ohh GOD if you start back tracking like that your going to end up finding out that terrorism started in the Roman empire, and it a way it did the Romans killed civilians burned houses, carried out assassinations...etc
Modern day terrorism is some what different and it didn’t turn into terrorism until around the 70's because before we had 2 world wars and then the Israeli Arab war Korea, and many others....
Suicide for a cause and to take some one with you was first done by the Japanese samurais way before the Russians did...
like I said if you keep back tracking hundreds and even thousands of years back your taking your self on a wild goose hunt...

True True. My point was more that Terrorism has a long history, and is not a uniquely Arab Muslim phenomenon. In terms of use of bombs & explosives in terrorism, it more or less started in Russia. But yeah I agree with you.

actually assasination comes from the middle east. Check the roots of the word

Well it was often practised in the Chinese Dynasties, Japan probably as well as many other parts of the world (including Roman empire, etc...), all around the same time period, not just because the English word "Assassin" derives from the Arabic "Hashish"

[Gon4z]

True True. My point was more that Terrorism has a long history, and is not a uniquely Arab Muslim phenomenon. But yeah I agree with you.

Koolio... hehe
man when u looka at it in a serious levle wer all bunch of idiots, humans just love to kill and couse evil in this world, we will never learn to love each other it just show in all the religions of the book the world ends with a holly war...

actually assasination comes from the middle east. Check the roots of the word

Well most probaly it did but most words in almost every language originate from teh midle east from Arabic & Persian, it is said that the whole of man kind came from Egypt... right i mean 90% of the names of military ranks originate from arabic, like general, captain, marshall, colonel...etc

[Flamming_Python]

Koolio... hehe
man when u looka at it in a serious levle wer all bunch of idiots, humans just love to kill and couse evil in this world, we will never learn to love each other it just show in all the religions of the book the world ends with a holly war...

Maybe they were trying to tell us something eh?
All humans die anyway, and killing is just another part of human life. Can't be any other way...

[Connaught Ranger]

No i think you should just look at what you said, terrorism started around 70's IRA was fighting after teh british after WWII befer that ther wer no conflicts, maby some shoot ups but tahts it... you just spoke a big bunch of crap

For your informationGon4z and if you check all the dates in BOLD you will see they are all pre-1970*, again you will notice that BOMBS were used and not just "shoot ups".

* that means before the year 1970 and wether its guns or bombs terrorism is terrorism.

SHORT HISTORY LESSON:

In 1939 the IRA began a bombing campaign in English cities, this was effectively over by 1941 (admitedly with few attacks having taken place.
In 1951 the IRA began its campaign to attack the British in Northern Ireland.

A second campaign was launched on the night of December 11th1956.

Sources: Bell J. Bower; The Gun in Irish Politics: An Analysis of the Irish Political Conflict 1916 -1968, Published in July 1987.

Foster. R. F. Modern Ireland 1600-1972, Penguin Press London published 1988.

Also;

The Border Campaign (December 12, 1956 – February 26, 1962) was a campaign of guerrilla warfare (codenamed Operation Harvest) carried out by the Irish Republican Army (IRA) against targets in Northern Ireland, with the aim of overthrowing that state and creating a United Ireland. The campaign was a failure.


The Border Campaign was the first major military undertaking carried out by the IRA since the 1940s, when the harsh security measures of the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland governments had almost destroyed the organisation.

In 1939 the IRA had tried a bombing campaign in England to try to force British withdrawal from Northern Ireland. From 1942-1944 it also had an ineffective campaign within the North. Internmenton both sides of the border as well as internal feuding and disputes over future policy all but destroyed the organisation. These campaigns were officially called off on March 10, 1945.

By 1947, the IRA had only 200 activists according to its own general staff.

In theory, the IRA wished to overthrow both "partitionist" states in Ireland, which it deemed to be illegitimate entities, imposed by Britain at the time of the Anglo-Irish Treaty in 1922. However, in 1948, the Chief of Staff, Tony Magan issued General Order Number 8, prohibiting "any armed action whatsoever" against the forces of the Republic of Ireland. This amounted to a de facto recognition of the Southern Irish state. From now on, armed action would be focussed on Northern Ireland, which was still part of the United Kingdom and which was dominated by Protestant Unionists. The idea of a campaign launched from the Republic against the North, first mooted by Tom Barry in the 1930s, gained currency within IRA circles as the 1950s went on.

By the middle of this decade, moreover, the IRA had substantially re-armed. This was achieved of arms raids launched between 1951 and 1954, on British military bases in Northern Ireland and England. Arms were taken from Londonderry, Omagh, Essex, Berkshire and Armagh. At the latter raid on Gough barracks in Armagh in June 1954, the IRA seized 250 Lee Enfield rifles, 37 sub machine guns, 9 Bren guns and 40 training rifles.


By 1955, splits were occurring in the IRA, as several small groups, impatient for action, launched their own attacks in Northern Ireland. One such activist, Brendan O'Boyle blew himself up with his own bomb in the summer of that year. Another, Liam Kelly founded a breakaway group Saor Uladh ("Free Ulster") and in November 1955, attacked aRoyal Ulster Constabulary barracks at Roslea in county Fermanagh. One RUC man was badly injured and a Republican fighter was killed in the incident. In August of the following year, Kelly and another IRA dissident, Joe Christle, burned down some customs posts on the border.


In November 1956, the IRA finally began its own border campaign. They were partly motivated by a desire to prevent any more splits in their organisation. They were also encouraged by the results of the British General Election of 1956, in which two Sinn Fein (since 1949, the IRA’s political wing) candidates were elected in Northern Ireland, with a total of 152,310 votes. This appeared to show that there was a substantial Irish Republican support base within the North.


The plan for the Border Campaign – codenamed, "Operation Harvest" – was devised by Sean Cronin. It envisaged flying columns, initially four of about 50 men each, operating from within the Republic of Ireland attacking military and infrastructure targets within Northern Ireland. In addition, another 20 organisers were sent to various locations within the North to train new units, gather intelligence and report back to the leadership in Dublin.

An IRA document seized in the Republic in 1956 stated that the aim of the campaign was to: "break down the enemy’s administration in the occupied area until he is forced to withdraw his forces. Our method of doing this is guerrilla warfare within the occupied area and propaganda directed at its inhabitants. In time as we build up our forces, we hope to be in a position to liberate large areas and tie these in with other liberated areas – that is areas where the enemy’s writ no longer runs"

The reference to "liberated areas" shows that IRA leaders had been influenced to some degree by Maoist guerrilla ideas.


No actions were to take place in Belfast, the capital and biggest city in Northern Ireland. There were two reasons for this. Firstly, the IRA in the city was believed to have been infiltrated by informers. Secondly, it was implicitly recognised that IRA actions in Belfast would provoke reprisals by loyalists against the Catholic/nationalist population there. This had happened on a large scale in 1920-22, during and after the Irish War of Independence.


The campaign was launched with simultaneous attacks by around 150 IRA men on targets on the Border on the night of 11 December 1956. A BBC relay transmitter was bombed in Derry, a courthouse was burned in Magherafelt, as was a B-Specials post near Newryand a half built Army barracks at Enniskillen was blown up. A raid on Gough barracks in Armagh was beaten off after a brief exchange of fire.


The IRA issued a statement on 12 December 1956 announcing the start of the Campaign, "Spearheaded by Ireland’s freedom fighters, our people have carried the fight to the enemy…Out of this national liberation struggle a new Ireland will emerge, upright and free. In that new Ireland, we shall build a country fit for all our people to live in. That then is our aim: an independent, united, democratic Irish Republic. For this we shall fight until the invader is driven from our soil and victory is ours".


On December 14, 1956 an IRA column under Sean Garland detonated four bombs (one of which blew in the front wall) outside Lisnaskea RUC station before raking it with gunfire. Further attacks on Derrylin and Roslea RUC barracks on the same day were beaten off.


In response, on December 21, 1956, the government of Northern Ireland under Basil Brooke used its Special Powers Act to intern several hundred Republican suspects without trial. This, in time, severely limited the IRA’s capacity to build up units within Northern Ireland.


On January 1, 1957, an IRA column under Noel Kavanagh attacked the Derrylin RUC barracks again, killing RUC constable John Scally, the first fatality of the campaign. The following day, Sean Garland and Dáithí Ó Conaill led an attack on the Police station at Brookeborough. Two IRA men, Seán South and Fergal O'Hanlon, were killed in the abortive attack and the remainder were pursued back over the border by 400 RUC, B Specials and British soldiers.


The funerals of South and O’Hanlon in the Republic produced a strong emotional reaction among the general public there. (The two young men are still considered martyrs in Irish Republican circles) Up to 50,000 people attended their funerals. However, the Republic’s government, led byJohn Costello of Fine Gael, feared that the IRA’s action would drag it into a diplomatic confrontation with Britain and in January 1957, it used the Offences Against the State Act to arrest most of the IRA’s leadership, including its Chief of Staff, Sean Cronin. Fine Gael’s coalition partner, Clann na Poblachta (led by former IRA Chief of Staff Sean MacBride) resigned from government in protest over this policy. In the ensuing Irish general election, 1957, Sinn Féin won four seats and polled 65,640 votes (c. 5% of those cast).


However, the new government, of Fianna Fail, led by Eamon de Valera proved even more hostile to the IRA than its predecessor. In July 1957, after the killing of an RUC man, de Valera introduced wholesale internment without trial for IRA suspects. The use of internment on both sides of the Irish border made it impossible for the IRA, most of whose leadership was imprisoned, to maintain the momentum of their campaign.


The year 1957 was the most active year of the IRA's campaign, with 341 incidents recorded. In the summer of 1958, two IRA men (James Crossan and Aloysius Hand) were killed in separate gun battles with the RUC.


In November 1958, the IRA suffered its worst loss of life in the period when four of its members died preparing a bomb in a farm house at Edentubber, county Louth, which exploded prematurely. The civilian owner of the house was also killed. In 1959, only 77 incidents were recorded in the campaign and in 1960, this fell to just 26. Moreover, many of these actions consisted of minor acts of sabotage, for example the cratering of roads.


The final fatality of the conflict came in November 1961, when an RUC officer, William Hunter, was killed in a gun battle with the IRA in south county Armagh.


By late 1961, the campaign was effectively over. It had cost the lives of eight IRA men and four republican supporters. Six RUC members had been killed and 32 wounded. A total of 256 Republicans were interned in Northern Ireland in this period and another 150 or so in the Republic. Of those in the North, 89 had signed a pledge to renounce violence in return for their freedom.


That the IRA’s campaign had run its course by 1960 is testified by the fact that the Irish government released its internees (judging them to be no further threat) in that year. The Northern Irish government followed suit on the 25 April 1961.


Although it had petered out by the late 1950s, the Campaign was officially called off on February 26, 1962. In a press release issued that day, widely believed to have been composed by Ruairí Ó Brádaigh, the IRA Army Councilstated:


"The leadership of the Resistance Movement has ordered the termination of the Campaign of Resistance to British occupation launched on December 12, 1956. Instructions issued to Volunteers of the Active Service Units and of local Units in the occupied area have now been carried out. All arms and other matériel have been dumped and all full-time active service volunteers have been withdrawn... Foremost among the factors responsible for ending the campaign has been the attitude of the general public whose minds have been deliberately distracted from the supreme issue facing the Irish people, the unity and freedom of Ireland. The Irish resistance movement renews its pledge of eternal hostility to the British forces of occupation in Ireland. It calls on the Irish people for increased support and looks forward with confidence – in co-operation for the final and victorious phase of the struggle for the full freedom of Ireland".

Implicit in the statement was a recognition that the IRA, after a promising start in 1957, had failed to mobilise much popular support behind its campaign.

Sources:

1. <LI id=_note-0>^ Bishop, Mallie, the Provisional IRA, page41 <LI id=_note-1>^ Bishop, Mallie, page 41
2. ^ Bishop, Mallie, page45, M.E. Collins, Ireland 1968-1966, page 464, Richard English, Armed Struggle page 75

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Campaign_%28IRA%29"

[Monte]

Kosovo beat Serbia

wtf are you talking about?

[Bullterrier]

wtf are you talking about?

About this-

Suspended for infractions

[Russian_dude]

Yep Egypt had 3 times more thanx than Israel in the 70's nut it had no air force, so most of those tanks were destroyed before they even reach the Israeli border by half way, They were fighting you with T-55 whilst you had several types of tanks, dozens of aircraft types...etc you should think about keeping you state safe by learning to live with your neighbors, and giving other equal rights... Determination and heart only can go so far, in the modern age what matters more is technology and who has the most fire power…

Doesn’t it say on the Toura you were slaves of the Faro once and you know what it is like to be one, so don’t enslave others, well you should get along with the Palestinians, stop building Inhumane walls and if history has thought us one things is that walls don’t keep people out, I know that the Palestinians make it hard sometimes for negotiations and that’s something Israel should do to help the Palestinian authorities bring them under control, my point is you It was wrong of you to go and invade Palestine out of no were, I do think that Jew have every right to live in the Holly land, but so do others and not just the Jews it’s a Holly land to 3 religions and all 3 should share it

Arabs just LOOOVVE to blame Soviet weapons for defeats. North Vietnam had worse weapons then the Arabs and still did pretty well.
Israels weapons have for most part always lagged behind the Arabs. Super Shermans? Puh-leeze, those things were obsolete in 1943.