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Thread: India's INSAS rifle

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    Default India's INSAS rifle

    This is one infantry rifle that seems to get little attention from the firearms folks. Anyone know if it's been a success in service?

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    I've got your hardwood.... right here Durandal's Avatar
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    Manufactured by the Indian National Small Arms System...

    Replaced the L1A1. Loosely based on the AK with a G3 styled charging lever. Entered service in the late 90's. Chambered in 5.56 NATO.

    I know its seen use in some of the flare ups with Pakistan and I would hope its at least a decent rifle since there are hundreds of thousands issued to the army.

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    Senior Member REMOV's Avatar
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    Default Re: India's INSAS rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by Slater
    This is one infantry rifle that seems to get little attention from the firearms folks. Anyone know if it's been a success in service?
    Not quite... or maybe I should said it is a failure. A big failure...

    There are still technical problems with INSAS rifle - in December 1999 Indian Army complains about jamming at sub-zero temperatures in Kashmir and the Siachen Glacier. Also among the faults of the weapon are a defective barrel, a faulty change lever system and a poor carrying handle. The offcial raport states that despite over 15 years of development work, the army has found the carbine unacceptable due to the "high sound level and heating of the muzzle". Comparing to the old Polish, Romanian and Hungarian AK's, the army officials say they are more dependable than their own INSAS.

    The other problem is a cost, INSAS was designed as cheap assault rifle, but it appears the unit price is higher than expected, about 360 USD each, when Romanian imported AK were bought in 1995 for... 93 USD each, about 25% the cost of the INSAS rifle!

    Besides development problems the introduction of the weapon into service was delayed by the failure to establish local 5.56mm ammunition production - INSAS isn't fed by normal 5.56mm NATO (SS109) round but the "upgraded" copy (optimized to the longer distance fire and with greater piercing capacity). But finally they bought over 50 000 000 5.56mm rounds in Israel.

    And after the purchase, Indian Army Special Forces, which forced in mid-80 to replace old 7.62mm 1A1 (1A SL) battle rifles by new design... ordered in Israel 5.56mm Tavor's, suggested that the Israeli rifle better meet their requirements that their own INSAS rifle. So, they ordered ca.3100 Tavors TAR-21 with 40mm under-barrel grenade launchers, and also some sources said that IMI talks with the Indians to transfer technology and build Tavors in India.

    Also Indian Army is soon expected to issue a RFP for an initial ca.55-60 000 5.56 mm carbines. And it probably be beginning of the end of the INSAS assault rifle history...

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    I've got your hardwood.... right here Durandal's Avatar
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    Wow...now THAT is a procurement nightmare.

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    Senior Member oldsoak's Avatar
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    Any idea why didnt they make an AK47 clone or a Armalite ? Both cheap and easy enough to make I would have thought.

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    Senior Member Adam Wilhelm's Avatar
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    National pride perhaps?

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    Default AK India

    It seems that they made AK copy, but MTK is angry because of that.


    DEFEXPO 2004

    http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_420.shtml

    Any other info about this AK copy?

    Is it possible to fire rifle grenades from Insas, just like from Indian version of FAL?

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    Senior Member Luno's Avatar
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    One picture off the new New INSAS the magazine is plastic. The wood is replaced with plastic.
    Plastic is a much better substitute than metal as far as reflections go. it also makes the rifle lighter and allows the user to check the ammo in the mag.

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    Senior Member REMOV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durandal
    Wow...now THAT is a procurement nightmare.
    The story isn't over yet...
    Source, 22 January 2004

    Desi rookie rifle claims don AK-47's throne

    CHENNAI: Indian paramilitary forces will soon have a new assault rifle called AK-7 that will rival the ubiquitous AK-47.

    The new equivalent to the popular AK-47 will be used by paramilitary forces like the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) and Border Security Force (BSF), said P.K. Mishra, chairman of the Indian Ordnance Factories Board, in Udhagamandalam, Tamil Nadu, on Tuesday (where he participated in the centenary celebrations of the Cordite Factory).

    The sophisticated India-designed rifle is getting ready to be used soon. Army sources said the AK-7 will give the AK-47the most popular among assault rifles in the worlda run for its money.

    Named after its inventor Mikhail Kalashnikov, the automatic 7.62-mm calibre AK-47 can fire 600 or more rounds per minute and has been modified half a dozen times.

    The original AK-47 was not mobile but it was modified by equipping it with a metal stock so it could be carried by parachute troops and armoured troops.

    The original did not have a bayonet either. It was later equipped with one.

    However, despite all its shortcomings, no gun in the world is more preferred by standard armies and paramilitary forces (...)

    Source: The Times of India

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    Senior Member REMOV's Avatar
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    Default Re: AK India

    Quote Originally Posted by konkurs
    Is it possible to fire rifle grenades from Insas, just like from Indian version of FAL?
    Yes, "muzzle attachment doubles as a flash eliminator and rifle grenade launcher."

    More info about 1B1 and 1B2 INSAS.

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    Senior Member mountainbear's Avatar
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    Ive found two pics here:
    http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/events/
    I think first one was already posted, its an INSAS with an Israeli MARS sight, the second one is a improved INSAS called Excalibur.


    Does anyone have more information about this new version? I think it looks good and the folding stock is a good thing.

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    Member RBull's Avatar
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    The INSAS is obviously based on AK design with many details inspided by Valmet/Galil. Interesting how dificult it could be to make the "improved design" work at least as good as the original...

    There are already sevaral more or less sucesfull 5.56x45 NATO caliber designs based on AK, now even original Izhevsk AK's made in that caliber, not to mention selection of other good "ready off the shelf" designs availble. Why waste money on another "ingenious" design which is in fact just slightly different to those already existing?

    BTW, is the Indian 5.56mm ammo the same size as 5.56x45 NATO?

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    Senior Member oldsoak's Avatar
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    indian 5.56 is the same dimensions as the nato round.

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    Senior Member REMOV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBull
    The INSAS is obviously based on AK design with many details inspided by Valmet/Galil.
    ...and FN FAL and G3.
    Why waste money on another "ingenious" design which is in fact just slightly different to those already existing?
    The reason is the same as using vz.58 assault rifle instead of better AK(M). The national pride

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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbear
    Ive found two pics here:
    http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/events/
    I think first one was already posted, its an INSAS with an Israeli MARS sight, the second one is a improved INSAS called Excalibur.


    Does anyone have more information about this new version? I think it looks good and the folding stock is a good thing.
    this is the first time i see the weapon with the mars,did we soplaid india with the opt???

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