How we would fight China

[Yosy]

Looks like the yankee military-industrial complex is having a hard-on for Cold war seeking out and creating enemies where there is none. Have to register those profits no matter what.
How dare those commies were to just implode and ruin their awesome arms race? They could have earned billions and rob the taxpayer blind, but it all stopped.

So true. What people forget about China is that, unlike USSR/Russia, the chinese sphere of influence was always historically very limited to its own borders and little else. As long as they can continue to expand economically in Africa, they wont be a threat as the USSR was. At max they might take Taiwan, something that could happen in the near future.

But considering a military clash between USA and China, it would probably be Jutland - a tie in a naval battle. Both countries would have to be complelty crazy to try to invade each other or resort to nuclear weapons.

[Vivelamorte]

Wrong there. Up until the Ming dynasty China was actually the greatest seapower in the world, Chinese ships sailing through the whole of Asia and beyond trading goods. China was even close to industrialising a good 200 years before the West. However, due to the change of policies, i.e. laying a higher emphasis on culture than on science during the Ming dynasty, China decided to leave the world be and simply concentrated on itself.

Big mistake, as China learned the hard way. Japan forged a better path during the Meiji period.

Anyway, China and India shall be the superpowers of this century, the US has more or less had it (or will have it), and I must say I'm curious how the EU will develop.

[Josef Velikiy]

Forgetting about the SSGN Program, making the Ohio Class SSBN's into the first Tomahawk Cruise Missile platform. The USS SSGN-726 is currently on it's way to become this new toy, which would carry around 154 cruise missiles, and there will be 4 of them by about 2010, I think.

We most likely part two of these near China and good-by Navy. Only thing we need to worry about is Chinese Submarine Forces.

http://www.navalsubleague.com/sub_news/Final%20SSGN%20At-Sea%20DEMVAL%20Press%20Release%2016%20DEC%2002.pdf#search='SSGN%20Program'[/code]

Well, that would be great, but I'm not so sure it will work like that. Tommahawk is by nature a land attack missile. It is only sub-sonic, and really intended for destroying targets that don't shoot back, ie buildings. The PLAN does have point defence capabilities that can easily knock Tommahawks out of the sky, which would hinder that theory. However, I am not trying to say that these SSGNs wouldn't be very effective in removing other military infrastructure and capabiities - ie the PLAAF etc.

If you ask me, it will come down to Submarines, but not missile boats. The 877Ks are very quiet, and the Americans would have to be protecting alot of surface assets (if they sent a large incursion force or RDF) with the older 688s, which haven't fared so well in exercises with 'similar' allied diesel boats (ie. RAN Collins class) at least.

Then again, suppose the USA sent in Seawolf, Jimmy C. and Connetticuit... then it would be bye-bye PLAN - If I were in charge, I'd destroy their subs, leave them open to massive strikes from one or two CBGs... and they'd only have to hope that the PLAN 956Es didn't get close enough to fire their 32 Moskits.

[NicNZ]

Lets be fair to the article; it does talk up the threat of China in just about every way possible but that isnt really something to criticise because the article is meant to cover every aspect of the "chinese threat". Im still not a great subscriber to the author's suggestion that there is an inevitable military confrontation; the author -- in what I might caustically call "characteristic American style" -- seems to assume that the US is entitled to territory, influence, and control beyond its own borders. There isnt any reason to assume that. Accordingly, China is really entitled to play politics on the global stage and the US has no right to blockade China in by force.

[Pandy]

Forgetting about the SSGN Program, making the Ohio Class SSBN's into the first Tomahawk Cruise Missile platform. The USS SSGN-726 is currently on it's way to become this new toy, which would carry around 154 cruise missiles, and there will be 4 of them by about 2010, I think.

We most likely part two of these near China and good-by Navy. Only thing we need to worry about is Chinese Submarine Forces.

http://www.navalsubleague.com/sub_news/Final%20SSGN%20At-Sea%20DEMVAL%20Press%20Release%2016%20DEC%2002.pdf#search='SSGN%20Program'[/code]

Well, that would be great, but I'm not so sure it will work like that. Tommahawk is by nature a land attack missile. It is only sub-sonic, and really intended for destroying targets that don't shoot back, ie buildings. The PLAN does have point defence capabilities that can easily knock Tommahawks out of the sky, which would hinder that theory. However, I am not trying to say that these SSGNs wouldn't be very effective in removing other military infrastructure and capabiities - ie the PLAAF etc.

If you ask me, it will come down to Submarines, but not missile boats. The 877Ks are very quiet, and the Americans would have to be protecting alot of surface assets (if they sent a large incursion force or RDF) with the older 688s, which haven't fared so well in exercises with 'similar' allied diesel boats (ie. RAN Collins class) at least.

Then again, suppose the USA sent in Seawolf, Jimmy C. and Connetticuit... then it would be bye-bye PLAN - If I were in charge, I'd destroy their subs, leave them open to massive strikes from one or two CBGs... and they'd only have to hope that the PLAN 956Es didn't get close enough to fire their 32 Moskits.

To my understanding, the weapon system Tommahawk missiles also had the ability to to hit sea targets. Launch the missile and have it speeding at it's normal speed of about 550 mph, at the height of 40 feet. Takes a bit for Air-Defense Radar to pick that up, and by then, they'll have about 10 seconds to repond to the missile. If they have Air-Defense systems like our aircraft carrers, they might take out a good amount of them. But if a hell storm of 10-15 of them coming at you... maybe from two different directions? Might be a different story. We'll have a good amount of them on ships and submarines, China naval forces will have a hard time dealing with them.

Lets be fair to the article; it does talk up the threat of China in just about every way possible but that isnt really something to criticise because the article is meant to cover every aspect of the "chinese threat". Im still not a great subscriber to the author's suggestion that there is an inevitable military confrontation; the author -- in what I might caustically call "characteristic American style" -- seems to assume that the US is entitled to territory, influence, and control beyond its own borders. There isnt any reason to assume that. Accordingly, China is really entitled to play politics on the global stage and the US has no right to blockade China in by force.

I don't think we would be ****ing with them in the first place. If that President really wants an another term or... a bullet in his head, he wouldn't **** with them. The market will go to ****, congress will be pissed, people would nail him as the media from us and other countries will pound him...... Yes, I'm sure he doesn't want that.

[iflu]

still, what is the threat? Is it worth? what a boring topic.

[Pandy]

still, what is the threat? Is it worth? what a boring topic.

Well, there is always that little change that China, tonight, will invade Taiwan. The United States has that little treaty saying we will assist Taiwan by force is invaded by China. If we don't follow that little treaty, after treaties that the United States has will be question, bah bah bah bah bah.

If we do assist, then we running the risk of all out war, close and near to Nuclear War then, Winter.. and it'll most likely happen.

If Any Country wants to take over the world (EI, Europe, Russia, any third world country..) Just get China and the United States to have a war...

[Yosy]

If Any Country wants to take over the world (EI, Europe, Russia, any third world country..) Just get China and the United States to have a war...

You're seeing too much Sum of All Fears!

[Omz222]

Keep in mind that the PLA Navy does not have to confront the American forces directly in a great battle, as their objective is not to destroy every ship in existance, but to deny the Americans access to the Taiwan Straits. This is especially important considering that in many cases the central objective would be destroying a carrier (or CVBG on the larger scale)'s warfighting capability, not to destroy every ship in the CVBG, as the PLA Navy would obviously fail to do so. Thus, even if there is a naval clash between the elements of Chinese and American forces, if the Chinese is right with their tactics and strategies and if they have the right technologies, it would be a tactical victory for the Americans (i.e. sinking more old Chinese ships with American aircraft and submarines) but also a strategic victory for the Chinese (disabling the warfighting capability of the CVBGs to render them ineffective, thus forcing them out of Taiwan Straits).

[Knutsen]

I think China will fight itself. There will be a revolution sooner or later. China is extremelly polarized in urban and rural areas. Millions of workers are moving from rural China to urban China looking for a future. The thing is that this future is based on semi slavery. Sure they earn more than in the country but at what price? 14 working hours a day are not acceptable for a person. They live inside a complex, they have no vacations, they work in their small cubicle, they are not allowed to talk, they have to be in bed at 11 ... .It's like being in jail but getting paid. But what's their option? Return to the country? They would still be miserable.
Probably not in the next years but i tend to think China will be the next big revolution.

[Vivelamorte]

@Knutsen

Perhaps, but I think one would also have to consider the Chinese mentality in regards to work etc. That is one very important part of the equation.

[Knutsen]

Perhaps, but I think one would also have to consider the Chinese mentality in regards to work etc. That is one very important part of the equation.

Yep, you're right, the Chinese work extremelly hard but afaik the work conditions there are extremelly hard.

[thedragonandhistail]

The coming war with China will be fought over the unpopulated, but resource rich Spratley Islands.

It will start out as a skirmish between China and the several ASEAN nations, with the US, Japan and Australia being drawn into it.

Make no mistake about this. The islands sit in a rich fishing ground, and they are astride or on top of potentially rich natural gas fields. China does have an expansionistic attitude about this. Their claims for this territory are dubious at best, and are butted right up to several key allies territorial boundries.

[EsoognomEhT]

scaremongering?

[platform389]

But considering a military clash between USA and China, it would probably be Jutland - a tie in a naval battle. Both countries would have to be complelty crazy to try to invade each other or resort to nuclear weapons.

Even a quick review of history will reveal no shortage of "completely crazy" folks more than willing to start wars for all manner of reasons.

The Chinese hold to the "Middle Kingdom" myth. Combine that with the totalitatian regime in place there and you have most of the ingredients for conflict. Mix with the United States tendency to confront these same totalitarian regimes and all the elements are in place.

Add in the surging Chinese economy with the need to meet the increasing expectations of the Chinese population, and you have all the reasons needed as well.

Unfortunately, with the US fully engaged in the "War On Terror" with it's heavy drain on military resources, it is highly unlikely they will be able to sustain the Iron Fist so necessary to contain this particular totalitatian regime for very long. All those shoppers at Walmart are providing all the funding needed for China to simply outspend the US over the long haul.