Surprise i'm going to say finnish long range patrols in winter war.
and the soldiers who fought in stalingrad. Both German and Russian.
In that cold for so long...tough bastards.
I think this is what TF was maybe driving at,there are units and Armies of the past steeped in history!!
Surprise i'm going to say finnish long range patrols in winter war.
and the soldiers who fought in stalingrad. Both German and Russian.
In that cold for so long...tough bastards.
Let's keep with the eternal fetish of all adolescent boys, the germans of WWII. Instead of the SS thugs operating under mostly incompetetent commanders, I select three Wehrmacht units:
The 11th Panzer Division fighting a defensive battle at the river Chir close to Stalingrad, after the encirclement. Commanded by general Balck they annihilate whole russian tank units and secure the Chir line for the planned rescue attack towards Stalingrad.
The Panzergrenadier Division "Grossdeutschland", the elite Division of the Wehrmacht. Used as a fire brigade in all the hot spots of the Eastern Front and rarely conceding defeat.
The "Brandenburger" special operations unit that will often try and achieve the impossible. Often fight as conventional light infantry but every now and then take part in spectacular operations.
I am comparing traditional Iroquois/Huron warriors to the modern/ western ideal of an elite fighting unit. While western military units make use of mapping, compass, and other such navigation tools, the Native warrior effectively ambushed and overcame their enemies with stupendous results, as they were so knowledgeable of the land. Unfortunately, European born pathogens would diminish Native populations over time.Originally Posted by SOG
and the americans-europeans had gps, automatic weapons, air recon, and armor? you are talking about native indians and british/americans in the 17th to 18th century right? well hell, we didnt have that **** either! what are you on? maybe we had a gatling in latter wars but it was hardly forest worthy and was so heavy as to slow down anywhere it travelled (custer aka the lack of)
and yes the indians had very effective medicines and great herbal remedies that celebrities pay ass over fist for to get these made for them modern day so yes they had very good medicine, just not so great "doctors". then again if you were wounded back then and werent a higher up officer your doctor would be a bottle of scotch and a hack saw. so they actually had much better "medicine" than we ever did during those times.
they didnt need maps in thier own backyard and homes, and our maps were useless since no one went into every inch of the forest and mapped it out! american maps were of retarted, easy target roads for how many years? how long did it take adventureres to get out and just map a trail across the lands in a single direction let alone with indians help and they had never travelled that far either?
i agree indians are bad asses but for thier stealth, outdoor survivability and mobility and tracking abilities, not any of your very weird reasons.
and yes, if you took a indian today and dumped him in the middle of the woods half a world away he'd be as lost as ****. that is why modern day warriors use gps, because they usually dont fight in thier backyard!
The Brandenburgers were all the criminals and dregs of society who were given the choice jail or fight!
As for the SS having Incompetent Commanders
Sepp Deitrich
Joachim Piper
Kurt "Panzer" Meyer
Otto Skorzeny
Were all excellent commanders according to the testament of their men
Looks like Josh Hartnett jr.
Dietrich and Piper both failed miserably against American and British forces during the Battle of the Bulge. The furthest penetrations made were by regular Wehrmacht Panzer Divisions while the SS Panzer Army with the newest equipment was stopped dead in íts tracks after only modest advances. This was to be expected, how could a former bavarian butcher like Dietrich keep up with general staff educated rational prussian professional officers? The SS officers were brutal and ready to sacrifice their men, but never grasped the strategic level of war as others like Manstein or Guderian did.
I'd have to go with the Ghurkas myself. Scary little men they are.
With all due respect and regard for all other units, especially SOF ones, out there, my vote goes to Delta and the ISA. Of them, the toughest of the tough are our inside people. So much for no women in high risk situations. Have a good one, and just some thoughts...
no particular order...
#1. 101st Airborne, why? Normandy, Bastogne, countless fields in Vietnam, GW1, Afghanistan, GW2. i'm a little biased of course, my uncle was in the 101st during Vietnam...
#2. 75th Ranger Regiment
#3. SAS + Royal Marine Commandos, the original badass SOF units...
#4. 10th Mountain, they wouldnt be deployed so much if they were'nt tough...
Whenever I see threads like this, I always hope that the person who originated it will provide some definitions. What makes a unit tough? Is it the selection process or what the unit has done in an actual combat situation? And what makes the battle tough? Is it only the fighting, or does the environment play a role as well?
I think that 300 years of world history is an awful lot to cover for such a topic. That said...
18th Century - the untrained and poorly equipped men in the fledgling United States who (with a bit of help from our French friends) won freedom from the most powerful empire of the day.
19th Century - the British Rifle Brigade (was it the 94th Regiment of Foot?) during the Peninsular war and other adventures on the continent, fighting the French under Bonaparte.
20th Century - the 4th Marine Brigade (USMC) in World War One. They (the men) won every engagement they were in in spite of questionable leadership, poor training, and horrendous casualties.
21st Century - the 1000 (give or take) Allied SOF forces and our militia friends that drove the Taliban and Al-Quada from Afghanistan in the fall and winter of 2001.
The Jedi.
The topic is limited to the last 300 years. The Jedi were around a long time ago...
Damnit...I was going to add Imperial Royal Guard.
The topic is limited to the last 300 years. The Jedi were around a long time ago...
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