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Thread: Indian forced to 'marry' her father-in-law rapist

  1. #1
    Senior Member Drunkensquid's Avatar
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    Default Indian forced to 'marry' her father-in-law rapist

    Is this phucked up or what?


    NEW DELHI (*******) - An Indian rape victim is being forced by village elders to "marry" her rapist -- her father-in-law, a newspaper reported on Wednesday.

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    Community leaders in Charthawal village, backed by local Muslim clerics, believe that by being raped, 28-year-old Imrana's 10-year marriage has been nullified under Islamic law, The Asian Age newspaper said.

    Holding a special council on Sunday, village leaders ordered the mother of five to leave her husband, Noor Mohammed, and live with her parental family for seven months and 10 days and make herself "pure" again, The Age said. It did not say how she becomes pure.

    After that, she must "marry" her father-in-law and live with him, along with his legal wife.

    "She... will then be like a mother to Noor Mohammed," the paper quoted local cleric Shamim Ahmad saying.

    Her four brothers have agreed to the edict. She has not but in India, victims of crime often have nowhere to turn and with even her own family supporting the edict she may have little choice.

    Police are now investigating and say they plan to arrest the father-in-law. They refuse to comment on the village elders' ruling, saying it is a sensitive religious issue.

    The village is in Uttar Pradesh, one of India's poorest and most backward states and its most populous, with more than 165 million people, more than Russia's 145 million.

    http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor.../india_rape_dc

  2. #2
    Senior Member rajkhalsa's Avatar
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    This is what happens when you have a different set of laws and civil code for people of different religions, as India does. Under Indian Muslim civil law, a man can practice bigamy and quote the barbaric (though once -- that is, 800 years ago -- progressive) Islamic sharia law.

    Though this forcing of marraige is illegal under Indian law, their culture will 'force' her to abide by the cleric's edicts anyway, lest she be ostracized from the community.

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    Banned user Ayura's Avatar
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    Oh dear...It seems like these Muslim clerics have picked up the Bible instead of the Qu'ran.

    There is no-where in the Qu'ran or Islamic law where it says that a man should marry the women he raped. I reccomend you read the following:

    In Islam, we follow the laws of the Noble Quran, and the Sayings of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. If a situation or case is not addressed in neither the Noble Quran, or the Sayings of our beloved Prophet, then we follow the local verdicts of our Religious Authorities, where they would decide based upon the cultural and social situation and causes.

    Allah Almighty said in the Noble Quran:

    "O ye who believe! Obey God, and obey the Apostle, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to God and His Apostle, if ye do believe in God and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination. (The Noble Quran, 4:59)"

    "When there comes to them some matter touching (Public) safety or fear, they divulge it. If they had only referred it to the Apostle, or to those charged with authority among them, the proper investigators would have Tested it from them (direct). Were it not for the Grace and Mercy of God unto you, all but a few of you would have fallen into the clutches of Satan. (The Noble Quran, 4:83)"

    Since the punishment for rape doesn't exist in the Noble Quran, but exists in the Sayings of our beloved Prophet peace be upon him, then the verdict or law for punishing the rapist according to Noble Verses 4:59 and 4:83 above must come from our beloved Prophet's Sayings.

    Let us look at what Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said regarding this issue:

    The following information was sent to me by a Muslim; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him.

    Let us look at how Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him dealt with the rapists:

    Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr:

    "When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her. She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me. And when a company of the Emigrants came by, she said: That man did such and such to me. They went and seized the man whom they thought had had *********** with her and brought him to her.

    She said: Yes, this is he. Then they brought him to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him). When he (the Prophet) was about to pass sentence, the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: Apostle of Allah, I am the man who did it to her.

    He (the Prophet) said to the woman: Go away, for Allah has forgiven you. And about the man who had *********** with her, he said: Stone him to death.

    He also said: He has repented to such an extent that if the people of Medina had repented similarly, it would have been accepted from them. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 38, Number 4366)"

    Some Muslims do not believe in this Saying as an authentic one, because it didn't come from a "Sahih" (authentic in English) source. It came from "Sunan Abu Dawud". Sayings of our Prophet's companions and wives narrated in "Sunan Abu Dawud" are indeed authentic. But Sayings from other people such as Wa'il ibn Hujr above are doubtful. The only volumes that had been double and triple checked and are absolutely authentic to the Muslims are the "Sahih" volumes as I mentioned. With "Sunan Abu Dawud" we have to be extra careful, for it contains truthful and untruthful narrations about our Prophet peace be upon him.

    Another misapplication of Sharia Laws - the term abused in order to favour the males.

  4. #4
    Banned user Ayura's Avatar
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    Though this forcing of marraige is illegal under Indian law, their culture will 'force' her to abide by the cleric's edicts anyway, lest she be ostracized from the community.

    There is no such thing according to Islam. It seems apparent to me that this particular village is...abit weird.

    Read the following passage

    Absolutely not! Let us look at what Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said regarding this issue:

    Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as having said: "A woman without a husband (or divorced or a widow) must not be married until she is consulted, and a virgin must not be married until her permission is sought. They asked the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him): How her (virgin's) consent can be solicited? He (the Holy Prophet) said: That she keeps silence. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Book 008, Number 3303)"

    Allah Almighty said in the Noble Quran: "O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower [money given by the husband to the wife for the marriage contract] ye have given them, except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good. (The Noble Quran, 4:19)"

    The following Saying is an explanation to Noble Verse 4:19:

    Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas: "About the Qur'anic verse: 'It is not lawful for you forcibly to inherit the woman (of your deceased kinsmen), nor (that) ye should put constraint upon them.' When a man died, his relatives had more right to his wife then her own guardian. If any one of them wanted to marry her, he did so; or they married her (to some other person), and if they did not want to marry her, they did so. So this verse was revealed about the matter. (Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Book 11, Number 2084)" So according to Noble Verse 4:19, a woman can not be forced into marriage by any mean.

    Narrated AbuHurayrah: "The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: An orphan virgin girl should be consulted about herself; if she says nothing that indicates her permission, but if she refuses, the authority of the guardian cannot be exercised against her will. (Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Book 11, Number 2088)"

    Narrated Abdullah ibn Umar: "The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Consult women about (the marriage of) their daughters. (Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Book 11, Number 2090)"

    Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas: "A virgin came to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and mentioned that her father had married her against her will, so the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) allowed her to exercise her choice. (Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Book 11, Number 2091)"

    Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas: "The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: A guardian has no concern with a woman previously married and has no husband, and an orphan girl (i.e. virgin) must be consulted, her silence being her acceptance. (Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Book 11, Number 2095)"

    The above Noble Verse 4:19 and the Sayings of our beloved Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him clearly explain that according to Islam, whether the woman is virgin or not, her permission is a MUST. Her father or older brother can not force her into marriage as the Pagan Arabs and the Jews and Christians before Islam in the Middle East used to do; see Deuteronomy 25:5 in the Bible to see how women are forced into marriage.

  5. #5
    The Professor Lokos's Avatar
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    Shari'a is interesting, and not nearly as constrictive as many have been led to believe.

    According to my understanding of Islamic law, the best mode of development of jurisprudence is through ijtihad (legal reasoning) and a Qadhi's hukm (decision on a specific issue). These instruments allow Shari'a to cope with a constantly evolving societal value system - and remain a valid form of social ordering and control. Unfortunately, Shari'a, by its very nature, also remains locked in the tenets prescribed in the Quran and the Sunnah, neither of which can be breached by either ijtihad or hukm.

    Granted, my knowledge of Islamic law is largely cosmetic, but that is my view on it.

    Also, it is perhaps pertinent to note that secular law has ALWAYS existed alongside Shari'a, in every country that purported to be employing law as a system derived from Islam.

    Lokos

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayura
    There is no such thing according to Islam. It seems apparent to me that this particular village is...abit weird.
    Oh, honor killings, cleric sanctioned rapes, and stoning of women who were raped is very common in Muslim culture.

    [size=6]THE DEATH OF A MUSLIM WOMAN[/size]"The Whore Lived Like a German"
    March 2, 2005
    By Jody K. Biehl in Berlin

    In the past four months, six Muslim women living in Berlin have been brutally murdered by family members. Their crime? Trying to break free and live Western lifestyles. Within their communities, the killers are revered as heroes for preserving their family dignity. How can such a horrific and shockingly archaic practice be flourishing in the heart of Europe? The deaths have sparked momentary outrage, but will they change the grim reality for Muslim women?

    The shots came from nowhere and within minutes the young Turkish mother standing at the Berlin bus stop was dead. A telephone call from a relative had brought her to this cold, unforgiving place. She thought she would only be gone for a few minutes and wore a light jacket in the freezing February wind. She had left her five-year-old son asleep in his bed. He awoke looking for his mother, who, like many Turkish women in Germany, harbored a secret life of fear, courage and, ultimately, grief. Now her little boy has his own tragedy to bear: His mother, Hatin Surucu, was not the victim of random violence, but likely died at the hands of her own family in what is known as an "honor killing."

    Hatin's crime, it appears, was the desire to lead a normal life in her family's adopted land. The vivacious 23-year-old beauty, who was raised in Berlin, divorced the Turkish cousin she was forced to marry at age 16. She also discarded her Islamic head scarf, enrolled in a technical school where she was training to become an electrician and began dating German men. For her family, such behavior represented the ultimate shame -- the embrace of "corrupt" Western ways. Days after the crime, police arrested her three brothers, ages 25, 24 and 18. The youngest of the three allegedly bragged to his girlfriend about the Feb. 7 killing. At her funeral, Hakin's Turkish-Kurdish parents draped their only daughter's casket in verses from the Koran and buried her according to Muslim tradition. Absent of course, were the brothers, who were in jail.

    The crime might be easier to digest if it had been an archaic anomaly, but five other Muslim women have been murdered in Berlin during the past four months by their husbands or partners for besmirching the family's Muslim honor. Two of them were stabbed to death in front of their young children, one was shot, one strangled and a fifth drowned. It seems hard to fathom, but in the middle of democratic Western Europe -- in Germany, a nation where pacifism is almost a universal mantra -- murderous macho patriotism not only exists but also appears to be thriving. It may even be Germany's liberalism -- and its post World War II fear of criticizing minority cultures -- that has encouraged ultra-religious families to settle here.

    The problem is that much of this insular and ultra-religious world is out of public view, often hidden in inner-city apartments where the most influential links to the outside world are satellite dishes that receive Turkish and Arabic television and the local mosque. Tens of thousands of Turkish women live behind these walls of silence, in homes run by husbands many met on their wedding day and ruled by the ever-present verses of the Koran. In these families, loyalty and honor are elevated virtues and women are treated little better than slaves, unseen by society and often unnoticed or ignored by their German neighbors. To get what they want, these women have to run. They have to change their names, their passports, even their hair color and break with the families they often love, but simply can no longer obey.

    Precise statistics on how many women die every year in such honor killings are hard to come by, as many crimes are never reported, said Myria Boehmecke of the Tuebingen-based women's group Terre des Femmes which, among other things, tries to protect Muslim girls and women from oppressive families. The Turkish women's organization Papatya has documented 40 instances of honor killings in Germany since 1996. Examples include a Darmstadt girl whose two brothers pummelled her to death with a hockey stick in April 2004 after they learned she had slept with her boyfriend. In Augsburg in April, a man stabbed his wife and 7-year-old daughter because the wife was having an affair. In December 2003, a Tuebingen father strangled his 16-year-old daughter and threw her body into a lake because she had a boyfriend. Bullets, knives, even axes and gasoline are the weapons of choice. The crime list compiled by Papatya is an exercise in horror. And the sad part, said Boehmecke, is that it is far from complete. "We'll never really know how many victims there are. Too often these crimes go unreported."

    In many cases, fathers -- and sometimes even mothers -- single out their youngest son to do the killing, Boehmecke said, "because they know minors will get lighter sentences from German judges." In some cases, these boys are revered by their community and fellow inmates as "honor heroes" -- a dementedly skewed status they carry with them for the rest of their lives. Currently, six boys are serving time in Berlin's juvenile prison for honor killings. "In a way, these boys are victims, too," she said. Sometimes they are forced to kill their favorite sister.

    Rest of article: http://service.spiegel.de/cache/inte...4374-2,00.html

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    Banned user walford's Avatar
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    Who are we to judge an equally valid culture? We in the West are just as bad if not worse. Consider these quotes by noted feminists:
    • "All ***, even consensual *** between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman." Catherine MacKinnon

      "All men are rapists and that's all they are" -- Marilyn French, Author, "The Women's Room"

      "I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them." -- Robin Morgan, MS. Magazine Editor

      "Hetero****** *********** is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women's bodies." -- Andrea Dworkin

      "And if the professional rapist is to be separated from the average dominant hetero****** [male], it may be mainly a quantitative difference." -- Susan Griffin "Rape: The All-American Crime"

      "The institution of ****** *********** is anti-feminist" -- Ti-Grace Atkinson "Amazon Odyssey" (p. 86)

      "[Rape] is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear" -- Susan Brownmiller (Against Our Will p. 6)

      "When a woman reaches ****** with a man she is only collaborating with the patriarchal system, *****cizing her own oppression..." -- Sheila Jeffrys

      "Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women's movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage." (radical feminist leader Sheila Cronan).

      "Politically, I call it rape whenever a woman has *** and feels violated. You might think thats too broad. I'm not talking about sending all of you men to jail for that." -- Catherine MacKinnon "A Rally Against Rape" Feminism Unmodified

      "In a patriarchal society, all hetero****** *********** is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent." Catharine MacKinnon, quoted in Professing Feminism: Cautionary Tales from the Strange World of Women's Studies.

  8. #8
    Banned user Ayura's Avatar
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    honor killings, cleric sanctioned rapes, and stoning of women
    It's a result of culture, trust me. If this was part of Muslim culture, alot of people in the UK and America would have honour killings.

  9. #9
    Banned user walford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayura
    honor killings, cleric sanctioned rapes, and stoning of women
    It's a result of culture, trust me. If this was part of Muslim culture, alot of people in the UK and America would have honour killings.
    Actually there are a few Muslim honor killings in the West as well, but -- as it is not tolerated -- rare. That being said:
    Murder by family

    The murder of females in the Middle East is an ancient tradition. Prior to the arrival of Islam in AD 622, Arabs occasionally buried infant daughters to avoid the possibility that they would later bring shame to the family. This practice continued through the centuries. It may still occur today among Bedouins, who consider girls most likely to sully the family honor.
    The Myth of Feminine Evil

    ...Dr. Fatmagul Berktay of Istanbul University argues that patriarchy and female subjugation are peculiar aspects of monotheistic religions. She also notes, however that these structures became established in ancient Mesopotamia (Berktay 9), which at that time practiced a polytheistic religion that also tolerated the other beliefs that outsider and subject populations practiced [including Judaism] (Wells 266-267).

    Amongst the Semitic peoples [viz. the Hebrews and Arabs], there developed a conception that their childbearing capabilities actually make women inferior to men. While men “produce immortal cultural products,” women only produce mortal beings thus making them inferior. Men are further to be considered the mediators between the Divine and mortal and women must go through their men to attain spiritual contact. Being thus spiritually inferior and logically unreliable, explains Dr. Berktay, women’s ****** and reproductive power must then be under male control (Berktay 10).

    It must be emphasized that such cultural mores predate the advent of Islam in the Mid-East. Although the Koran specifies that women are equal to men in the eyes of the Almighty, such pre-Islamic practices as holding women as property, female infanticide and polygamy ended up being folded into Islamic life, continuing in some parts to this day (El-Aszhary 109).
    In my opinion, the reason that such barbaric practices as honor killings tend to be over-represented among Muslim populations is that there has of yet been no equivalent Reformation as was the case with Western Christianity [BTW I'm not a Christian or Jew]. This may be in progress now, but so far there has been no fundamental shake-up of authority structures that comes with questioning those who purport to speak for the religion. Thus there has been no fundamental review of such practices as honor killings.

  10. #10
    Banned user Ayura's Avatar
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    Actually there are a few Muslim honor killings in the West as well, but -- as it is not tolerated -- rare. That being said:

    I am aware of this - but guranteed 100% of the time you will find that these people happen to be hardcore immigrants from such cultures.

  11. #11
    Senior Member mi35d's Avatar
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    Oh dear...It seems like these Muslim clerics have picked up the Bible instead of the Qu'ran.

    So you start your defense of your religion by making a backhanded and unsubstantiated attack on another religion???

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    Quote Originally Posted by walford
    Who are we to judge an equally valid culture? We in the West are just as bad if not worse. Consider these quotes by noted feminists:
    • "All ***, even consensual *** between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman." Catherine MacKinnon

      "All men are rapists and that's all they are" -- Marilyn French, Author, "The Women's Room"

      "I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them." -- Robin Morgan, MS. Magazine Editor

      "Hetero****** *********** is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women's bodies." -- Andrea Dworkin

      "And if the professional rapist is to be separated from the average dominant hetero****** [male], it may be mainly a quantitative difference." -- Susan Griffin "Rape: The All-American Crime"

      "The institution of ****** *********** is anti-feminist" -- Ti-Grace Atkinson "Amazon Odyssey" (p. 86)

      "[Rape] is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear" -- Susan Brownmiller (Against Our Will p. 6)

      "When a woman reaches ****** with a man she is only collaborating with the patriarchal system, *****cizing her own oppression..." -- Sheila Jeffrys

      "Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women's movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage." (radical feminist leader Sheila Cronan).

      "Politically, I call it rape whenever a woman has *** and feels violated. You might think thats too broad. I'm not talking about sending all of you men to jail for that." -- Catherine MacKinnon "A Rally Against Rape" Feminism Unmodified

      "In a patriarchal society, all hetero****** *********** is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent." Catharine MacKinnon, quoted in Professing Feminism: Cautionary Tales from the Strange World of Women's Studies.
    Bahh they are just angry that they are to ugly get laid. One timne I saw a guy insult a femminist and she ripped his ***** off and skinned him alive to make hides to hang on the wall of the local Amazon feminist club.

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