CETME and G3 pics

[MARINO]

This pics are to old both guns are now retired. Only for Honour guards.
CETME






G3

[Dalleer]

Are those stocks made out of wood? now that's classy...

[fantassin]

Few people know that the French navy Commandos-Marine units used CETME from the early 60s the end of the 70s.

They had been captured on algerian FLN rebels during the war in Algeria (1954-1962) and re-issued to the Commando-Marine as they were far superior to anything they were using then (MAT49 SMG, FSA 49/56 SLR or even M1 carbines).

The pictures of those CETME in action in Commando-Marine hands are very rare unfortunately because they were not really supposed to use those captured weapons....

[newyorker0852]

nice pics

[Loco]

Stocks were made of walnut wood, but the ones of us who used that rifle called it not cetme but "Chopo"(black poplar) because they were made of wood and I suppose "chopo" sounds shorter and more funny than "nogal"(walnut), although it´s said spanish recruits 100 years ago called their mausers "chopo" too.
Fantassin, this is an amazing story and it has many derivations. Because of the Franco´s regime nature, cetmes never were an exportation´s success, that´s why H&K was licensed for making their own cetme. In the years you´re talking (between 50-60) chopos were a new weapon, that´s why I think FLN´s cetmes posibly were a new ones, not a military surplus. How and where did the FLN buy a cetme´s cargo? As I know Franco never helped FLN or any other anti-colonial guerrilla, specially in the Maghreb, in fact Franco had some kind of simpathy to OAS and they could enter in Spain of a relatively easy way, till the moment they tried to killed De Gaulle that Franco stopped all facility. I suppose France didn´t want to buy weapons of Spain in that time, but why didn´t they buy G3 of Germany?
I´d love to see photos of frenchs SF marines with Cetmes. Would you have any of them? All in all, this seems to be and interesting stoy, I like more secret stories than those that the whole world knows.

[fantassin]

As far as I know, those weapons were either seized on dead FLN guerillas or were part of a larger consignement of smuggled weapons seized in one of the gun-running eastern block ships that ferried weapons from places like Yugoslavia to Morroco or Tunisia. Weapons seized in those ships ranged from Mauser 98k to MP43, Panzerfausts and MG42....

I know of two pictures of Commandos-Marine with CETMEs and the French magazine Militaria did an article on the Commandos-Marine during the war in Algeria last year that featured some infos on the subject. I will try to dig it out in the coming weeks. I have also seen one pic of a Commando-Marine with a CETME in France during an exercise in the early 70s.

As for buying CETMEs, since the French company Manurhin had the license to build a lot of german weapons including G3s and HK33 (and SIG 540/542/543...) for the export markets, it would not have been interesting to do that. For example, the Walter PP and PPK sold in the US and stamped "Made in Germany" were actually made in Mulhouse, France...

So maybe some CETMEs were stolen before delivery or from Spanish armouries in Ceuta and Mellila. Only a guess though.

[Loco]

I´ve seen this photos before in other sites, of troops with cetmes in Sahara in action, anyhow I believe that they are interesting:





In the picture below , a lot of wapons: subgunmachine Z-45, cetme(at the bottom),...


Nomads troops below,

[Barebow]

G3 from Holland with a Zeis scope !


Barebow

[kinghk]

G3 from Holland with a Zeis scope !

Nice view?

How are the dutch gunlaws ?

[GI_Rutger]

not good

[mustamato]

Swedish AK4OR (swedish-made G3 with x4 scope), only used by the homeguard nowadays, issued at 1 per squad while the rest has ordinary AK4´s and FN-MAG´s. Have fired AK4 a couple of times, fieldstripped it and so forth. Didn´t like it all. Too much recoil compared to the AK5 (5.56) I´m used too. Too many small parts and so forth. But it´s german engineering so it works good atleast. The only reason why AK4 is still used in Sweden is probably due to the fact that the older guys that are in charge only had these when they were young, the only thing they are used to and that´s why they like it. Not really because it´s any better than more modern assault rifles. Concreteasses.


All the ordinary AK4´s in Sweden will have their open sights removed and replaced with a
rail with Aimpoint. Don´t ask me who the idiot was who decided that open sights was to be
removed though.


Typical view of a group of swedish homeguardsoldiers 2003. AK4 (G3) and Ksp 58 (swedish-made FN-MAG).
Still equipped with the 304K combat belt (Stridsbälte) while the ordinary army has changed to the Combat
Vest (Stridsväst) 2000. Note that one of the guys still have a old steel helmet, m/37, these are still visible
here and there in the homeguard.

[kinghk]

The only reason why AK4 is still used in Sweden is probably due to the fact that the older guys that are in charge only had these when they were young, the only thing they are used to and that´s why they like it. Not really because it´s any better than more modern assault rifles. Concreteasses.

Probably economic issues has a part in it also. By keeping the G3 for the home guard, the amount of weapons which must be purchased is lower, and there is still someone left who can shoot up all the 7.62x51 mm ammo.

BTW, the norwegians are going to replace the G3 rifle anytime now[*], and the home guard will keep its G3 rifles.

* Well, they said so for the last 10 years or so.

[mustamato]

Probably economic issues has a part in it also. By keeping the G3 for the home guard, the amount of weapons which must be purchased is lower, and there is still someone left who can shoot up all the 7.62x51 mm ammo.

BTW, the norwegians are going to replace the G3 rifle anytime now[*], and the home guard will keep its G3 rifles.

* Well, they said so for the last 10 years or so.

But considering the fact that the swedish Army must have like nearly 300.000 AK5´s in their stocks and the army has shrunk considerably during the recent cutbacks, (and will shrink even more during the next ones) I think that there are plenty of AK5´s for the Homeguard as well. But I could be wrong, but when they bought those AK5´s there was a need for atleast 200.000 of them, maybe they didn´t buy as many...

I have heard plenty of comments from the older guys who had AK4´s during their Army days and now have them in the Homeguard that it is the ultimate weapon and that the younger kids that is complaining are just not grown up enough to handle the recoil and bull**** like that. There is really a "lobby" on keeping those AK4´s. And since it will have a Aimpoint on it it will now be considered as "state of the art" and "extremely modern" by the concreteasses, and will be used for the next 30 years to come

[fantassin]

Loco, here is how CETMEs got to be used by the French Commandos-Marine.

They were seized on the Dutch gun-runner Tigrito by a French Marine Nationale boarding team in 1960. They were about to be delivered to the FLN, the rebel algerian movement.

The CETMEs were then tested from November 1960 by the GROUCO (The Commando-Marine command) and adopted. They remained in service until mid 70s....

Infos and pics in the French magazine MILITARIA, issue 214, May 2003.

[Loco]

Thanks a lot! I´m going to copy this story, I like this kind of anecdotes, I suppose the Tigrito is cargo ship. Yesterday I was in Hendaye, if I knew this data I could order that number of Militaria, well, next time, soon, I´ll come back.