U.K.'s Blair Says Democracy in China Is `Unstoppable'
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=adzFsZxMhbLIU.K.'s Blair Says Democracy in China Is `Unstoppable'
Sept. 6 (Bloomberg) -- U.K. Prime Minister Tony Blair said after talks with Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao that there is an ``unstoppable momentum'' toward democracy in China, the world's fastest-growing economy.
``The whole basis of the discussion I have had in a country that is developing very fast -- where 100 million people now use the Internet and which is going to be the second-largest economy in the world -- is that there is an unstoppable momentum toward greater political freedom,'' Blair told reporters in Beijing.
Blair, who holds the six-month rotating European Union leadership, was in China for two days of talks as head of an EU delegation before leaving today for two days of talks in India. The EU and China reached an agreement yesterday to end a stalemate that left 400 million euros ($502 million) of Chinese garments stranded at European ports.
China's National People's Congress will begin to ratify a 1966 United Nations human-rights accord ``as soon as possible,'' Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang said at a briefing today. Countries such as Britain have insisted China ratify the human-rights agreement and free activists still in jail who were involved in the 1989 protest in Tiananmen Square, which China violently suppressed.
`Question Mark'
China's human-rights record left many people with a ``question mark'' over the country, Blair said.
``People see China's development and want to know what kind of country they are dealing with,'' he said. ``It's not that people resent China, but they have got a question mark because they see this enormous economic power.''
Still, ``the current administration is different from the first times I went there,'' Blair said. ``There is no desire to escape the topic of democracy and there is a genuine sense of engagement.''
Wen said China would ``press ahead with its development of democratic politics, and that's reconstruction in an unswerving way.''
In ``several years,'' China might allow democratic elections on a ``town level,'' said Wen.
Get real, I mean China is getting better with some things. but they still have fkn filtered internet. Sites that don't conform to the ideas of the powered get banned and if people view them they are arrested.
You can have all the elections you want but if people are brainwashed or threatend with violence to vote for one side then it's no democracy.
THERE IS NO DEMOCRACY WITHOUT INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM!
I'm kind of worried if china turns democratic too fast. They have 1 billion people of many ethnic origins and many different needs.
China was a republic once under the KTM and they were numerous petty civil conflicts and very corrupt .. the ordinary civilian were dirt.. but this time under warlords fighting for power. Not much different from the Ching Dynasty they toppled.. just different sets of uniforms. But under the Ching Dynasty at least there were no petty wars, but weak, and were bullied by the colonial western countries.
My concern is to control 1 billion people spread thru out greater China is not easy. Thats why China has strict capital punishment and, they are swift and ruthless against desidents and riots. Such incident if lead out of control would be serious.. imagine a million people rioting. Capital punishment is practised around the world, even in US.
While I think that China's police should be more professional and less violent. They are, however, not much more violent then some enforcement agencies in some Asian countries and almost all third world countries. Even in the US... Unnecessary violent force were often used on criminals.. if not being shot.. remember Rodney King incident. A video was taken of that incident.. I believe many others were not.
In fact.. Just my opinion.. even some developed countries. Just look at how the police were forced to quell the riots and protests in South Korea and Europe countries, weren't violence overly used. Mirror that to the Tianamen Square incident where, thought not widely publicised, many policemen died and some were abducted by the protesters and is still missing. The protesters were more violent as those mentioned above. But why the unbalanced reporting. Maybe 'A man standing against a tank' photo. Man.. that dead guy gots guts.
Managing ONE BILLION population is joking matter.. Some times harsh measures have to be employed. I mean, US with only 280 million population are sending troops into New Orleans for combat missions, what gives.
I'm not a big fan Communism, in fact, sort of hate them, i believe nobody are absolute equal and cannot be equal.. what will happen to society.. you mean the communist leaders don't eat better food. The cultural revolution event is a disgraceful Chinese history.
But fortunately.. today's Communist China have changed.. they are looked more republic in communist disguise. They are very capitalist and standard of living is getting better.
While the west, especially US, thinks that everyone should adopt their system of government and insist on what is best for others. They should however, know that everyone is different, everyone's needs are different and every cultures are different. Even Mcdonalds market their line of products differently in every country.
China has been under the monarch system for as long as history can remember. Even the Brief KTM rule .. dispite being a republic.. works somewhat similar. China's population is huge and ethnic groups still very much alive and numerous, unlike in europe where there very few ethnic groups to identify with.
I.. for one.. sadly.. feels that China should remain as it is. Let them decide what suits them. If they think they need a government change.. please revolt.. I suspect that the west will support them in weapons, military advisers and logistics.
But China is now peaceful, why force such monumental changes to government, there will be deaths, despair and what if it does not work out. Even if the west would take blame.. the chinese are the paying for it with their lives and suffering.
So lets do business with them, visit them and make friends with them, and if they see's the benefits of true democracy, let them change themselves.
But there are site that have been censored in the UK too.........Freedom of speach,a democracy........?
Lets just wait and see what happens with China
U.K.'s Blair reminded China's tanks are 'Unstoppable'
Brainwashing in China is huge. I work with a Kiwi-chinese dude and boy his version of history is scary. Whats worse he carries a real grudge against the way China's been treated by the rest of the world and assures me his is the majority view in China.
IMHO China is following in Japans footsteps...
Originally Posted by jmatucd
China is not progressing towards democracy in my opinion. Sure some richer people are loving the fact they can be more independent post-Deng Xiao Ping, but it is merely financial freedom that allows it!
I have said it before and will say it again, from a foreigner who lives in China and has so for more than 1 year, who teaches the new generation of Chinese, who is engaged to a Chinese peasent(no really she is), a permanent resident and being someone who engages in limited forms of political discussion with 'friends'.
China is not nearly ready for democracy, the government is corrupt, the army is corrupt and a politcal tool, the society is run by the man with the biggest stick(CCP at the moment), education is not really education - it is indoctrination, freedom is consider to be able to go to McDonalds if you wish!
China is at least 30 years away from any form of serious democratic reform. Hong Kong, Taiwan, Macau arent democratic as we hold to be true in the west.
People need to get over Tianamen and realise that it helped the country more than it hurt it. I am sorry to say that, but it is true. If the country would have fallen into dissarray at that point. What would we be talking about now? The latest assasination, the latest coup, the latest election rigging news.....
China is one seriously F****ed up country!
I also have many mainland Chinese friends (in the hundreds).. and many are not like what you have described. You just have to be objective, fair and balanced while engaging them.. then reel them in.Brainwashing in China is huge. I work with a Kiwi-chinese dude and boy his version of history is scary. Whats worse he carries a real grudge against the way China's been treated by the rest of the world and assures me his is the majority view in China.
Please keep an open mind .. no offence intended
Brainwashing is also very real and successful in the US too. The US news media were exploited to the full extend, when US invades Iraq. After daily pounding about WMD, everybody believes it, even me. Especially, about the part where Saddam was near completing one.. and the attacks took more intense momentum. There were no WMD were there.. much less completing one. In fact, from the start, everyone actually ignored or knew that Saddam has nothing to do with 9/11.Now we know that it was about Oil and that Saddam was about to peg those oil to Euro currency. Very very bad for Corporate USA.
Marketing at it's best. (note : I did not use the word 'Propaganda')
The China threat is another in progress. Taiwan is just another tool, though the threat is real, taiwan is historically part of China and many countries recognises this. Taiwan Commercial jets are now flying over and across China's airspace. Mainland China is also the ancestrial land to many Fujian Taiwanese. I suspect in other 1 or 2 election, Taiwan will return to China peacefully. just a little insight.
Back to discussion in-proper... The China Thread.
Rumfield
The director of the Asia bureau of China's foreign ministry, Cui Tiankai counter."Since no nation threatens China, one must wonder: Why this growing investment? Why these continuing large and expanding arms purchases?" Rumsfeld said at the conference organized by the International Institute of Strategic Studies, a private, London-based think tank.
Rumsfeld said he does not think any country threatened China and that the United States did not see China as a threat
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapc...sfeld.asia.ap/"Since the U.S. is spending a lot more money than China is doing on defense, the U.S. should understand that every country has its own security concerns and every country is entitled to spend money necessary for its own defense," Cui told The Associated Press after Rumsfeld's remarks.
Now we know that the US has is 18 times the military budget that of China's. Japan is about twice. US has about 10,000 nuclear based weapons. Reversely.. shouldn't the folowing phrase holds tru too.
China.. apart from threat to taiwan and tibet's historical issues. China has not invaded any one out of it's sphere in history.. unlike the US. Don't China have to right to modernise it's defence, in fact, China is reducing its military size. Is US trying to undermine China progress with the Taiwan issue.. so that one day.. US can Iraq China too, with ease ? I mean people are blinded to US talking about the military balance in the region for US interest openly. Which part of the 54th state of America is in Asia anyway.( Iraq.. being the 52th and Afghanistan.. being the 53th)Since no alien planet threatens USA, one must wonder: Why this growing investment? Why these continuing large and expanding arms purchases?"
The marketing reason is that the US wants to ensure that the international commercial shipping remains open. What they try not tell you is that China depended heavily on the the commercial shipping lane too.. for its hungry oil industries and trade. Anyway, as far as i can say, the US have been historically enforcing embargo around the world.. Cuba.. Iraq ..hmm.. don't remember.. could be more.
Like the Fujian Governor of Ching Dynasty, during the Dutch occupation of Taiwan quote' I do not want to wake one morning.. look out in to the sea and find hundreds of warships'
That thought holds true, if were to be in their position.
"unstoppable democracy" while everyone in US calls them commies is a bit funny.
Blair is trying to kiss up to China; probably a US plan to normalize relationships with China through Britain. Surfacing of US-China befreinding news artciles also suggest the same.
That's a little bit of a far analogy with alien planet and such, but US does have the largest army and it does have an excuse to keep it that large, becuase US has alot of enemies. But how did it get to be that US has acquired so many enemies in the first place? - US foreign policy of meddling into other nation's business.Since no alien planet threatens USA, one must wonder: Why this growing investment? Why these continuing large and expanding arms purchases?"
I think it is inevitable but like everything in China, it will take a long, long time.
Pushing them to change immediately will only cause backlash and delay progress.
Ва&am
I used that analogy about Alien planet is because with 10,000 nuclear based weapon. It can destroy the world many times over. So it must be defending itself from an enemy planet from outer space. And this is the very nation that is constantly forcing others to disarm or reduce their nuclear weapons or program..That's a little bit of a far analogy with alien planet and such, but US does have the largest army and it does have an excuse to keep it that large, becuase US has alot of enemies. But how did it get to be that US has acquired so many enemies in the first place? - US foreign policy of meddling into other nation's business.
Nothing is inevitable. And i realy mean nothing.
it might have a high probability but that's it.
/C -cynic
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