Vandals Target Istanbul Pogrom Photo Exhibit

[Kontra1]

Prior to greek invasion of Izmir, all the local greeks marked the doors of the Turks who were neighbors for decades.Greek forces didn't have any difficulty picking out the Turks.

Well, there is no source (except from Turkish books of course) to support your claim. It is true that many Greek soldiers committed attrocities but it was a war and these things happen in every war. There are always a few hundred idiots in an army.

I wonder why it doesn't suprise me why the whole thing wasn't mentioned in your greek history books (except only by "few hundred idiots")

Kontra1

I wonder why nobody else claims this, not only my greek history books. I did a search in the web and found nothing. If you can 'enlighten' with a link (not posted by a Turk) we can talk about this.

By the way (this is a little off topic), I noticed that all Turkish memebers of the forum are extremely proud of their ancestors. (I refer to posts like "The 16 great Turkish Empires" ) I am sorry to spoil yous fantasies, but it is very unlikely that either you or the others are related to those great ancestors. The Seljuks, the first Turks that arrived in Asia Minor, quickly merged with the local populations which were hostile against the Byzantine government due to heavy taxation and corruption. The natives accepted Islam and followed the Turks strenghtening their ranks. Futhermore, the tribe of the ottoman Turks were approximately 2-3000 people and they grew large in numbers due to a cruel tactic. They kidnapped Christian children (Greeks, Armenians, etc) and converted them and trained them to the most fearsome soldiers of the Turkish army. Thanks to them they defeated the Seljuks and the Byzantines.
The point is that few of Turks are actually Turks and even fewer have connections with the first Ottoman nomads who arrived in Asia Minor. Sorry and have a nice day

PS: Don't bother finding links to prove that Greeks nowadys have no relation with ancient greeks. I already know that only a few of us are genuine greeks, many have Slavic, Albanian, Turkish, or Italian origins. No need to prove it to me.

After all..you're a greek right?? so it's perfectly understandable :

Kontra1

[Nikitaras]

The Greeks fought tooth and nail against Hitler while Turkey benefited from their "neutrality". Thats a fact.

While we're on the subject please explain to us why Mein Kampf is the most popular book in Turkey.

Mein Kampf is not the most popular in Turkey...How much time that I have to say it? I honestly, friendly, warmly say...Mein Kampf is among the "top 5000 best sellers"

CD, It was number 4 out of 5000 best sellers. The number one book is Metal Storm where a Turk blows up Washington DC with a nuke.

[Kontra1]

The number one book is Metal Storm where a Turk blows up Washington DC with a nuke.

Okay...I'll tell him not to take the book too seriously when I see him (someone should tell you that too)

Kontra1

[Vorian]

Lock it....

[David Tate]

Dear God would you people quit adding up quote after quote. Lazy savages!

[achilles]

CD, It was number 4 out of 5000 best sellers. The number one book is Metal Storm where a Turk blows up Washington DC with a nuke.

Someone said something about what kind of history is being taught in Greek schools...funny...last time i checked Turkish 'schools' are teaching that the Turks are the master race, the mother race of all races and that its the Turks who launched global civilization. Plus, they have discovered America about a million years ago...i guess they feel like nuking Washington because their acheivements have not yet been recognized

[achilles]

Learn your own history before talking **** about others.

Kontra1

Sometimes you ARE funny indeed Talking about history with you is like talking about smoking with Joe Camel himself

[Kontra1]

CD, It was number 4 out of 5000 best sellers. The number one book is Metal Storm where a Turk blows up Washington DC with a nuke.

Someone said something about what kind of history is being taught in Greek schools...funny...last time i checked Turkish 'schools' are teaching that the Turks are the master race, the mother race of all races and that its the Turks who launched global civilization. Plus, they have discovered America about a million years ago...i guess they feel like nuking Washington because their acheivements have not yet been recognized

Look who is talking

The key is of course to convince one's fellow citizens of the supremacy of one's nation (a) by bestowing the nation with all the merits imaginable and (b) downgrading all foreign nations and groups, the enemies the more so. The national myth is part and parcel of the national narrative and national project.

In the Greek case, the pupils are thought to be intolerant of other nations and ethnic groups (outside and within Greece). The Greek educational system teaches them and makes them believe that the Greeks are superior to all others; that the Greeks are the direct descendent of the illustrious ancient Greeks, who are said to be the greatest civilization of ancient times and the point of departure of Western civilization; and that the Greeks (presumably the ancient Greeks) are the creators of all major human values with an incomparable contribution to world culture. Greek students are also taught that their nation is more than 3000 years old. They do not recognize the well-known fact that nationhood is a very recent phenomenon in human history and that hardly any Greek nation or people existed in the classical ancient Greek cultural-linguistic milieu of antagonistic city-states. Again the attempt at historical depth is characteristic of most national historical narratives, but the Greek case is one of the most extreme, comparable only to the Israeli or Ethiopian cases. Furthermore it is deeply held and provides the Greeks of today with one of the most glorious myths ever conceived. It gives rise to self-esteem but also to arrogance and haughtiness towards all others.

Alexis Heraclides is Associate Professor of International Relations at the Panteion University in Athens

Alexis Heraclides.

http://www.aimpress.ch/dyn/trae/arch...6-trae-ath.htm

See what the ignorance of your own system causes you.

You're never gonna learn... are you?

Kontra1

[achilles]

Look who is talking

Tell me, how much does a Turkish husband in Istanbul sell his wife for a nice little quicky? Last time i checked was something like 30,000 (more zeros?) liras

[b]The key is of course to convince one's fellow citizens of the supremacy of one's nation (a) by bestowing the nation with all the merits imaginable and (b) downgrading all foreign nations and groups, the enemies the more so. The national myth is part and parcel of the national narrative and national project.

The definitely describes what you have been through during your unfortunate youth...

Now let me break down a bit the piece of literature you have posted for the millionth time:

In the Greek case, the pupils are thought to be intolerant of other nations and ethnic groups (outside and within Greece). The Greek educational system teaches them and makes them believe that the Greeks are superior to all others;

In fact i grew up in an environment where everybody was considering every thing that is 'foreigner' as being 'better', from consumer products to mentalities and attitudes...other Greeks around here can well verify
that.

that the Greeks are the direct descendent of the illustrious ancient Greeks,

Sierraone, Vorian and myself (at least) have said a number of times that certainly after centuries of anthropological evolution our DNA cannot possibly match 100% that of Aristotle, Plato, Alexander and Pericles...in fact they kept telling us at school that things have changed but the spirit and some of the good attributes are still here...after centuries of Ottoman cancer we are still struggling to bring them up to the surface again.

who are said to be the greatest civilization of ancient times and the point of departure of Western civilization; and that the Greeks (presumably the ancient Greeks) are the creators of all major human values with an incomparable contribution to world culture.

Not the greatest but certainly one of the big ones...ask any foreigner about that...it all had to start from somewhere, and Hellenism contributed a lot to what we now call 'Western Civilization'. Of course the Romans and much later, W.Europe and America have been building A LOT on that foundation ever since the revival of the Greek-Roman spirit...the Renaisance...have you ever heard of the term, or is it the Khun's who started it all?

Greek students are also taught that their nation is more than 3000 years old. They do not recognize the well-known fact that nationhood is a very recent phenomenon in human history and that hardly any Greek nation or people existed in the classical ancient Greek cultural-linguistic milieu of antagonistic city-states.

Is it the same Greece we are talking about? Cause my teachers told me that the term 'nation' waw conceived quite recently

Again the attempt at historical depth is characteristic of most national historical narratives, but the Greek case is one of the most extreme, comparable only to the Israeli or Ethiopian cases. Furthermore it is deeply held and provides the Greeks of today with one of the most glorious myths ever conceived. It gives rise to self-esteem but also to arrogance and haughtiness towards all others.

What an objective and balanced piece of art you chose to post. Does it come from the same source that blame Norwegians for some sort of strange 'sterilization' schemes? Its not from Greek-Murderers-dot-com or Hurriyet now, is it?

As for the Albanians, there is not much more i can do than repeat myself...of course there have been violations of their human rights, primarily by the police and in terms of labour exploitation. But i can tell you with great certainty-and if you take the grease out of your Ataturkish head you will realize it-that their behaviour has not been the optimal. We have done no worse than any country receiving mass illegal migration from an underdeveloped country. Hell, when their jails broke loose 15 years ago and they started looting our houses with AK-47s we were bound to kick some ass...of course mistakes have been done all along the process...why dont you ask the Albanians where would their living standards be without Greece? Its not arrogance...its the truth...pretty much like starving Greeks managed to put a slice of bread into their mouths when they migrated to Germany, the US, Australian and practically every corner of the world, no so very long ago...

See what the ignorance of your own system causes you.

You're never gonna learn... are you?

Kontra1

Thank you for giving me the chance to show how much you project your very own shortcomings to other people...its all you can do whatsoever...drag the whole thing into a stupid blame game...'hey, look at those guys...they arent any better than we are!!!'

If you werent amusing i could go as far as calling you...pathetic

[Kontra1]

Look who is talking

Tell me, how much does a Turkish husband in Istanbul sell his wife for a nice little quicky? Last time i checked was something like 30,000 (more zeros?) liras

[b]The key is of course to convince one's fellow citizens of the supremacy of one's nation (a) by bestowing the nation with all the merits imaginable and (b) downgrading all foreign nations and groups, the enemies the more so. The national myth is part and parcel of the national narrative and national project.

The definitely describes what you have been through during your unfortunate youth...

Now let me break down a bit the piece of literature you have posted for the millionth time:

In the Greek case, the pupils are thought to be intolerant of other nations and ethnic groups (outside and within Greece). The Greek educational system teaches them and makes them believe that the Greeks are superior to all others;

In fact i grew up in an environment where everybody was considering every thing that is 'foreigner' as being 'better', from consumer products to mentalities and attitudes...other Greeks around here can well verify
that.

that the Greeks are the direct descendent of the illustrious ancient Greeks,

Sierraone, Vorian and myself (at least) have said a number of times that certainly after centuries of anthropological evolution our DNA cannot possibly match 100% that of Aristotle, Plato, Alexander and Pericles...in fact they kept telling us at school that things have changed but the spirit and some of the good attributes are still here...after centuries of Ottoman cancer we are still struggling to bring them up to the surface again.

who are said to be the greatest civilization of ancient times and the point of departure of Western civilization; and that the Greeks (presumably the ancient Greeks) are the creators of all major human values with an incomparable contribution to world culture.

Not the greatest but certainly one of the big ones...ask any foreigner about that...it all had to start from somewhere, and Hellenism contributed a lot to what we now call 'Western Civilization'. Of course the Romans and much later, W.Europe and America have been building A LOT on that foundation ever since the revival of the Greek-Roman spirit...the Renaisance...have you ever heard of the term, or is it the Khun's who started it all?

Greek students are also taught that their nation is more than 3000 years old. They do not recognize the well-known fact that nationhood is a very recent phenomenon in human history and that hardly any Greek nation or people existed in the classical ancient Greek cultural-linguistic milieu of antagonistic city-states.

Is it the same Greece we are talking about? Cause my teachers told me that the term 'nation' waw conceived quite recently

Again the attempt at historical depth is characteristic of most national historical narratives, but the Greek case is one of the most extreme, comparable only to the Israeli or Ethiopian cases. Furthermore it is deeply held and provides the Greeks of today with one of the most glorious myths ever conceived. It gives rise to self-esteem but also to arrogance and haughtiness towards all others.

What an objective and balanced piece of art you chose to post. Does it come from the same source that blame Norwegians for some sort of strange 'sterilization' schemes? Its not from Greek-Murderers-dot-com or Hurriyet now, is it?

As for the Albanians, there is not much more i can do than repeat myself...of course there have been violations of their human rights, primarily by the police and in terms of labour exploitation. But i can tell you with great certainty-and if you take the grease out of your Ataturkish head you will realize it-that their behaviour has not been the optimal. We have done no worse than any country receiving mass illegal migration from an underdeveloped country. Hell, when their jails broke loose 15 years ago and they started looting our houses with AK-47s we were bound to kick some ass...of course mistakes have been done all along the process...why dont you ask the Albanians where would their living standards be without Greece? Its not arrogance...its the truth...pretty much like starving Greeks managed to put a slice of bread into their mouths when they migrated to Germany, the US, Australian and practically every corner of the world, no so very long ago...

See what the ignorance of your own system causes you.

You're never gonna learn... are you?

Kontra1

Thank you for giving me the chance to show how much you project your very own shortcomings to other people...its all you can do whatsoever...drag the whole thing into a stupid blame game...'hey, look at those guys...they arent any better than we are!!!'

If you werent amusing i could go as far as calling you...pathetic

Tell me, how much does a Turkish husband in Istanbul sell his wife for a nice little quicky? Last time i checked was something like 30,000 (more zeros?) liras

Dunno...ask your priests..they're the experts with these kind of things

Greek metropolitan bishops attend a meeting of church elders in Athens on Friday. Orthodox leaders met to discuss emergency reforms amid sex and corruption scandals facing the powerful institution.

http://www.detnews.com/2005/religion...gion-94634.htm

Sierraone, Vorian and myself (at least) have said a number of times that certainly after centuries of anthropological evolution our DNA cannot possibly match 100% that of Aristotle, Plato, Alexander and Pericles...in fact they kept telling us at school that things have changed but the spirit and some of the good attributes are still here...after centuries of Ottoman cancer we are still struggling to bring them up to the surface again.

Yours should at least match with Alexander's...didn't you once say you were a "Macedonian" descent?

after centuries of Ottoman cancer we are still struggling to bring them up to the surface again.

You say that every time..It's time to quit whining.People who are not familiar w/history might buy it but..It's been more than 100 years(30 years of it in the EU) and your still using the same excuse.

Thank you for giving me the chance to show how much you project your very own shortcomings to other people...its all you can do whatsoever...drag the whole thing into a stupid blame game...'hey, look at those guys...they arent any better than we are!!!'

Noo probs dude...after all, we are the barbarians and YOU are the "civilized" one...moreover, the inventors of the civilization...

Kontra1

In summary, Greek national identity has been (re)constructed through the territorialization and politicization of ethnic and cultural traditions. Ethnic customs, linguistic ties and religious beliefs have been transformed into national sentiments. According to Smith's (1986) distinction between ethnic and territorial nations, the Greek national community belongs clearly to the former type. Thus, any questioning of the 'hellenicity' of Alexander the Great is perceived as a threat to the very essence of the nation because it casts doubt on the continuity of the national community through history.

4.4
The nationalist feelings of the population have however been manipulated by political parties as a campaigning device, namely as a means of discrediting one another while keeping the voters' attention away from internal economic and social problems (Mouzelis, 1978: p. 135). A conservative government initially and later a socialist government stimulated nationalist sentiments and, simultaneously, acted to disorient the electorate in a period of economic and political crisis. National pride has systematically been emphasized in a political discourse which concentrates on the 'injustice' caused by 'foreigners', i.e. FYROM or the international community. Thus, as often happens, the glories of the past have been used to recompense for the failures and dissatisfaction of the present.

4.5
Such manipulation has marked the political history of Greece since the beginning of this century. The example of the Megali Idea, i.e. the idealistic conception developed by the Greek state up to the expedition in Asia Minor in the 1920s, according to which all the territories in which people of Greek origin lived were to be incorporated into one powerful and independent Greek state, is too recent to be forgotten (Mavrogordatos, 1983). The end was certainly not reached, yet Greece succeeded in dramatically increasing its territory and population as a result of its participation in the Balkan wars and the First World War.

http://www.socresonline.org.uk/2/1/7.html