Interesting pics gangplank6 thanks for sharing.
I apologize and will do that in the future. The photos are credited to the IGPO Israeli Govt. Press Office and the IDF, and yes they are from an Osprey book IDF Since 1973 by Sam Katz.
The text in the paranthesis are some of my observations concerning the slings and handguards as I am seeking information.
Sorry, I did not mean to be snappy. I am somewhat drunk...Originally Posted by gangplank6
Marsh
No problem Marsh. I have read your posts and enjoy them very much.
I am aware of the relationship between the Finnish Valmet and the Galil and would be happy if there is any interest to post up some PDFs of articles from "ancient times." Thanks for the information regarding the dates on getting the Galil into a version that could actually be fielded. As I stated previously there is some confusion at least to me about when the rifle first entered service with the IDF. For instance Wikipedia lists the service of the Galil starting in '72.
Hi,
Again please accept my apologies for being a grumpy, old b*stard.
The rifle may well have been trialed in 1972, but to the best of my knowledge, the first time it started appearing, in the hands of ordinary soldiers was in late 1973.
cheers
Marsh
Does anyone know if the Nahal march 09 draft recieved tavors?
Excellent info. Marsh. Wow I have a question maybe some of you could shed light on.
There is a debate going on between myself and several (legal tax stamped Class III) MAC-10 owners I know regarding the Entebbe mission. There are only maybe two photos I have ever seen of the mission both taken post op.: the famous black 220 Mercedes being disembarked from an IDF herky bird, and another of one of an officer wearing camo (not the French Algerian Lizard pattern but a spot pattern of sorts) with an AK-47.
Anyway some of these guys are claiming that the MAC-10 was used instead of the UZI (BOLD STATEMENT IMO) on the Entebbe raid for some reason concerning suppressors (mashtiqs/ cans). I was very skeptical of this immediately as studying COIN (counter insurgency) is a hobby of mine I remembered that SOG in Vietnam already had FN licenced UZIs with QD (quick detach) suppressors prior to 1972. Then I thought ok well maybe if the suppressed MAC was there it would have only been in extremely limited quantity and only to serve a specific purpose like quietly poping the Ugandan guards at the gate to the terminal facilities from within the Mercedes with. I thought this might be feasible as the MACs OAL (overall length) with a can would probably have been less than that of a canned UZI with stock collapsed and thus more easy to manoeuvre inside a Mercedes cramped with a bunch of commandos and gear.
And so....I started digging through my humble library and re-reading any accounts I could find of the raid on Entebbe. One account in a book can't remember lists the Ugandan guards were wounded initially, being hit by 9mm rounds from two "canned" suppressed Beretta M1951S' fired from the black Mercedes. The entire account say nothing of any MACs.
Then I was perusing another one of Sam Katz's books looking for info. on Entebbe and ended up reading about the famous Operation Hearts and Minds (Operation Aviv Neurim) in April of '73. This mission was in response to the Munich Massacre and is depicted in the movie Munich (which I did not think was very good other than that scene). The books account of this mission states that a great variety of suppressed weps. were used including .22 pistols, suppressed UZIs, and the MAC-10 in .45 ACP. The account goes on to say that "Throughout the operation, the commandos' American-made MAC-10 proved a big disappointment," as a result of inaccuracy.
If that is the case, I am even more skeptical that any MACs would have been employed on the Entebbe Operation. I only added some parenthesis to explain specific small-arms terminology and jargon that us Americans use like OAL, QD, etc.
I am very curious to see if anyone else has info. regarding this dispute as I feel the history of this mission especially is quite important.
Reservists in Lebanon
It is very interesting to see these and then compare it to the reservists that participated in cast lead. It's like day and night. I am happy to report that lessons have been learned (albeit painfully).
(BTW: Some of these guys have no protection at all, as you can see)
There were always great lamps and seats in the lebanese houses we saw in those pics.. all of a very nice taste
Don't you mean " eifo kulam"?
Yup, I volunteered 2 years more..
don't bull sh*t me....you know you hitch hiked too.....do you know i'd probably be dead today if i had not taken the tramp? I've been stranded so many times around the country. Tramping is the BEST. I have some great stories and met some great people by doing so. Especially being a lone soldier, so when i'd get F*cked over by my officers who let me out too late off base and then shabbat came through and I had no way of getting home. The army doesn't give a sh*t if I get home ok...they care if I COME BACK to base ok so I can fire their rifles, clean the kitchen and guard from 2-4am. Every IDF soldier here know's what im talking about
A military police vehicle came from the opposite direction on road 90 infront of my kibbutz. They pulled a U turn and pulled up to me. I was listening to my ipod so I didn't notice. I would have just run away but it was so hot outside hahaha. Whatever, I got out of it. Every court martial I ever had I got out of innocent as can be.What I heard that in the Yom Kipur War only 20 Galil's were issued, one of them to Raful...
No, it's not right
"Notice the soldier on the right is carrying the newer Galil AR with polymer handguard "
The soldier just changed the wood handguard with polymer, You can notice thet bipod place still ther, not like the AR.
zaanan,
Peres on a tour of Southern Lebanon spring 1985 (Notice the soldier on the right is carrying the newer Galil AR with polymer handguard and attached Galil pistol grip. Note although this is an AR the gas block still has the bipod mounting point.
See my comments above.
To quote a portion of the actual books caption for the photo:
"...Israeli-made Kevlar armour vest with six built-in pouches and one rear canteen pouch, over Nomex OG-106 shirt and trousers. He carries the latest version of the Galil to enter service, the Galil AR, to which he has added a forward pistol grip."
Of course what you are saying could be true, but admit you could be incorrect. The first Galil ARs would have been produced IMO using barrel assemblies from ARMs. I have seen things like this very often and in Colombia the ARs are still produced I believe with the bipod attachment below the gas block. I can throw up some pics if you like.
Added: What I am wondering is how those fwd. pistol grips performed in the field and whether it was more a matter of cool factor for officers and such?
Last edited by gangplank6; 05-10-2009 at 02:02 AM. Reason: Added Comment
Givati575: A court martial for hitchhiking! That's fricking harsh. What's the reasoning behind that? Are they afraid soldiers would be kidnapped? The reason I ask is I'm reading a book about the the 1973 war, and Isreali soldiers where hitchhiking all over the place to get to their units on time for the call up.
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