Israel Defense Forces (Read First Post!)

[Swarovski]

Note that it's not that easy to hit such target.
The vulnerable parts are very small so you'll have to approach pretty close to the tank in order to acquire the target.
There is no 'responding background'. In case you missed you won't know where to re-shoot to fix your error (unlike seeing the ricochets on the ground when shooting on a human target),
The tank is higher than the sniper - the target is being placed on the skyline so you'll have the 'responding background' issue once again.
The target is moving and pretty fast.
So there you have it: Pretty fast moving target, relatively small, with no responding background, most of the cases above the sniper – cutting the skyline.
Not likely to be hit by a sniper, if you ask me.
Also note that this theory can be applied on many more components on any tank / APC. Have you ever heard about a driver / commander episcope hit by a sniper?

[PsychoDude]

Note that it's not that easy to hit such target.
The vulnerable parts are very small so you'll have to approach pretty close to the tank in order to acquire the target.
There is no 'responding background'. In case you missed you won't know where to re-shoot to fix your error (unlike seeing the ricochets on the ground when shooting on a human target),
The tank is higher than the sniper - the target is being placed on the skyline so you'll have the 'responding background' issue once again.
The target is moving and pretty fast.
So there you have it: Pretty fast moving target, relatively small, with no responding background, most of the cases above the sniper – cutting the skyline.
Not likely to be hit by a sniper, if you ask me.
Also note that this theory can be applied on many more components on any tank / APC. Have you ever heard about a driver / commander episcope hit by a sniper?

what da F are you talking about.....

easy or not is not the case, training and equipment of ~10,000$ can take out of operation protection of 200,000$ and then tank worth ~5million$

[Swarovski]

what da F are you talking about.....

easy or not is not the case, training and equipment of ~10,000$ can take out of operation protection of 200,000$ and then tank worth ~5million$

No need to be rude.
I'm talking about the fact that your theory is wrong. Snipers are not a threat for such a system, just wanted to explain you why.

[IDF_TANKER]

what da F are you talking about.....

easy or not is not the case, training and equipment of ~10,000$ can take out of operation protection of 200,000$ and then tank worth ~5million$

First, calm down. Second, there are a lot of things on the tank, which had they been taken out by sniper, would render the tank combat ineffective. However, as experience has shown, beside perhaps the urban environment, snipers usually are not the threat for the tank (for once, because tanks have better optics and much longer range of fire, than a sniper).

[Swarovski]

+1
I've done many drills with armor platoons (inside and outside the tank) and discussed it many times with tankers.
The only scenario i'd be a threat to a tank is when one of its crew members will pop his head outside the hatch, mostly in urban zones.
I'm no threat to any its instruments and i'd better save my ammo (and cover) for softer targets.

[PsychoDude]

No need to be rude.
I'm talking about the fact that your theory is wrong. Snipers are not a threat for such a system, just wanted to explain you why.

"The tank is higher than the sniper - the target is being placed on the skyline so you'll have the 'responding background' issue once again."

That is the reason for rudeness, the so called "fact" i apologize , sniper can shoot from above below and whatever...

The target is moving and pretty fast.

Again, so the target constantly in motion no matter what....

Also note that this theory can be applied on many more components on any tank / APC. Have you ever heard about a driver / commander episcope hit by a sniper?

if you stick your head during operation your chances are high to die

[Swarovski]

"The tank is higher than the sniper - the target is being placed on the skyline so you'll have the 'responding background' issue once again."

That is the reason for rudeness, the so called "fact" i apologize , sniper can shoot from above below and whatever...

The target is moving and pretty fast.

Again, so the target constantly in motion no matter what....

Also note that this theory can be applied on many more components on any tank / APC. Have you ever heard about a driver / commander episcope hit by a sniper?

if you stick your head during operation your chances are high to die

Even if you don't agree with me, still no need to be rude.
Just out of curiosity, what is your experience with sniper rifles? Did you ever used one? If the answer is yes – on what type of targets?
I’m asking because stating that “sniper can shoot from above below and whatever” is slightly inaccurate. Sure, sniper can shoot any target, but with lack of responsive background it will be VERY hard to hit or fire a second corrected shot.
It also goes for the other way around – firing from up-above the target (from a high building to the street for example) will damage your ballistic, forcing you to recalculate and correct the distance selected.
Basic sniping methods.
Also, hitting an episcopes won’t hit the operator since it’s far above his head, like a periscope.
I stated that the sniper will be a threat to the tanker itself when he (or she) will stick his head outside the hatch.

All of the above should show you that no sniper is a threat to any tank or its systems.

Anyway, we gone totally offtopic here. May I suggest that we stop this argument.
You may post an answer http://www.rafael.co.il/ is you’d like to.

[PsychoDude]

First, calm down. Second, there are a lot of things on the tank, which had they been taken out by sniper, would render the tank combat ineffective. However, as experience has shown, beside perhaps the urban environment, snipers usually are not the threat for the tank (for once, because tanks have better optics and much longer range of fire, than a sniper).

I can think of one system that vulnerable to light kinetic munition that can operationally disable tank, is the electrooptical system, if you take a look you would see that it protected inside turret like casing, turret can rotate so do the electrooptics inside the casing, in a need it can operate as blinking eye hiding the sensitive parts, the Trophy radar seems to be all exposed and vulnerable...

[NimDod]

I can think of one system that vulnerable to light kinetic munition that can operationally disable tank, is the electrooptical system

It wouldnt operationally disable a tank with a secondary system.

M60 Patton FTW!

[widow41]

PsychoDude: troll much?

You assume that because it is a radar it is vulnerable to being disabled by a single small arms bullet. You also assume that because the sighting systems are behind glass they too are as vulnerable. You also assume that a sniper can casually shoot these ‘vulnerable’ spots. All assumptions are wrong.

The radar is an active electronically scanned unit made up of multiple transmit and receive elements protected from the outside world by an armoured radardome. Even if your projectile penetrates the ‘dome’ it will only damage one or two of the T/R elements enabling the rest to keep working. Even if you destroy the entire antenna they are located so other antennas provide nearby coverage.

Similar for the ‘glass’. This is high hardness or armoured glass. It is as strong as a cm or two of high hardness steel. Any bullets may chip the glass (the sights focus beyond the chip) but they won’t break through.

Finally the threat to these points is not from uber snipers taking out tanks with single bullets. But from burst of machinegun fire and artillery splinters. They have been a threat to vulnerable points on tanks for the past 84 years and tank designers have been making sure these points can resist them.

[IDF_TANKER]

It wouldnt operationally disable a tank with a secondary system.

M60 Patton FTW!

Home, sweet home. What Magach is it? It's not the Magach-7c Nachal Oz.

[PsychoDude]

Me trolling? it is you who is trolling, read my post again and comprehend, then reply...
"can it be so? doesn't make any sense that engineers at RAFAEL didn't think abut the possible scenario strategies to countermeasure the system, yet the radar casing should be inert, can it be also armored?"

[bdique]

Me trolling? it is you who is trolling, read my post again and comprehend, then reply...
"can it be so? doesn't make any sense that engineers at RAFAEL didn't think abut the possible scenario strategies to countermeasure the system, yet the radar casing should be inert, can it be also armored?"

I guess the idea that they are trying to put across is that the chances of giving it a disabling hit is extremely low...and the factors include moving vehicle, sillhouette etc, knocking out the APS with a sniper shot needs a major dose of luck...if I really wanted to nail it, I'd call in arty fire on it, or hose it with MG fire and hope for a lucky hit...

[PsychoDude]

MG sniper rifle or whatever, that is what i try to conduct vulnerability of radar, i dont know, just asked a question if it can be armored to stand projectiles and be inert.

[NimDod]

Home, sweet home. What Magach is it? It's not the Magach-7c Nachal Oz.

It's not a Magach.
Just an original M60A1