Reply With QuoteThe number of Merkava tanks is relatively easy to guess, but who knows how many Magachs are still here...Originally Posted by Bloo
I'm curious about the IDF's active/reserve (not storage) tank inventory speaking of this. I get figures anywhere from 800 to 3,000.
The number of Merkava tanks is relatively easy to guess, but who knows how many Magachs are still here...
According to an article in Israeli army newspaper from 12/2011 there are currently 4 reserve brigades equipped with Magah (presumably all 7d). They are expected to remain in service for the next 20 years. Their personal is to be drawn from the graduates of the 7th and 188th armored brigades. The first batch of reservists - 120 in total - will undergo retraining In the first part of 2012: tank commanders in February and crew members in May. Another course is supposed to graduate by the end of they year. Subsequently, 3 courses are expected to undergo re-training annually.
Total number of active tanks in the IDF is estimated at about 2000: three regular brigades, one regular training brigade, and 9 reserve armored brigades.
Last edited by Palmach-2; 05-18-2012 at 11:49 PM.
The numbers that are given by INSS are different (pages 11 and 12): http://www.inss.org.il/upload/(FILE)1336472780.pdf
But when it comes to number of units and quantities of weapons in the IDF, everything that is published should be taken with precaution.
Except the gun caliber, is there a difference between a Magach 7d and the Sabra upgrades for Turkey?
>Total number of active tanks in the IDF is estimated at about 2000: three regular brigades, one regular training brigade, and 9 reserve armored brigades.<
Is it feasible to assume 100 tanks in a brigade? Then that would mean 13 Brigades with appr. 1300 tanks + 700 storage?
Regarding the average production of merkava (50 a year) there should be:
400 Mk IV (sufficient for 3 or 4 Brigades)
700 Mk III (sufficient for 6 or 7 Brigades)
(my guess is that they are in active units)
250 Mk II
(2 Reserve Brigades ?)
150 Mk I (all retired - storage, rebuilds or scrap)
700 Magach 7
(2 or 4 Reserve Brigades? Plus storage?)
^^^
What's the source these numbers?
just myself
MK I was produced 80-82 (~ 3.5 years - first examples were seen in 79) - some losses (~20) in 82 - some rebuild into Armored Personnel Carriers
MK II was produced 83-89 (~6 years)
MK III was produced 89-03 (~14 years)
Mk IV was produced 03-recent (~ 8 years - with 5-10 losses in 06)
from the ~1200-1400 M-60 some 700 were converted to M-7 (If I remember well this figure once was published in IISS)
But my point was to understand the number 2000 and the number of Brigades. Although I think that this figure (2000) is convincing (~1100-1200 Mk IV & III + 250 Mk II + 600 M-7), to distribute them between 13 Brigades would mean that there are significantly more than 100 per BGD.
There are probably some 500-600 M-60 derivates and even some 200-300 M-48 derivates in long term storage.
The Centurions seems to have been retired completely.
So a fulltime (Syria) wartime scenario could see ~3000 tanks.
Any critics to these numbers are welcome.
Cheers
sneaker53 - there are many mistakes in your figures (which i won't correct, obviously). few important facts:
- Centurions have been retired completely as tanks, you forgot all the heavy APC conversions.
- Same goes for M-60 and T-55.
- There were more Merkava losses between 1982 and 2006, although they were minor numbers.
- The number of Mk I rebuilt into APCs is negligible, only 3-5 AFAIK (2-3 APCs, 1-2 ARVs).
INSS gives the following numbers:
GROUND FORCES:
Total number of brigades 78
Divisions 16
• 12 armored divisions (In each division: 2-3 armored brigades + 1 mechanized + 1 artillery)
• 4 mechanized/infantry divisions
• 21 independent brigades (5 mechanized infantry, 12 Territorial, 4 Airborne)
Tanks - Quantity 3,640 - In service 3,110
Merkava 4 - 360
Merkava 3 - 780
Merkava 1/2 - 580
M60/Upgraded Magach 7 - 1,040
M60A1/3 - 130 (560)
Centurion/Upgraded Centurion - 220 (350)
APCs/AFVs - Quantity 8,375 - In service 7,900
Achzarit - 215
Namer - 130
M113 - 5,500 (some upgraded)
Nagmashot/Nagmachon/Nakpadon - 400
M2/3 70 (600)
Light armored vehicules - 1,630
A rare gem: color photos of palsar 7 training during the late 60s. photos were taken by mr Yosi Dital
Real question is, how many of all these 1000 of tanks and 1000 of APCS are actually capable for combat and operational at this time ? in most countries when you have so huge numbers of military vehicles even owners don't know the real number of operational machines. Probably most of mk4 and mk3s are operational and capable for combat the same as Namers and Achazarits, but everything else is pretty much questionable I would say. Also not to mention the need for fuel in 2012 and global crises with oil to "feed" all this massive numbers of huge military vehicles which eat fuel like chimpanzees bananas. Also I would say that 360 MK4s and 780 Mk3s in combination with systems like tow, spike , AH-64s etc is enough to defeat all Syrian armor which is pretty old and technologically inferior...(if we talk about only about Syria) , Egypt in this scenario is of course something totally different and much more serious)...
Whoa!
Awesome pics Sirpad!
Very cool pictures, thanks!
On Merkava production numbers....
I checked the data base of SIPRI (Stockholm International Peace Research Institute).
http://armstrade.sipri.org/armstrade...e_register.php
Between 1979 and 2003 USA delivered 1500 AVDS-1790 engines to Israel.
" For some 1280 Merkava-1/2/3 tanks produced in Israel (AVDS-1790-6A and AVDS-1790-9AR version) and for modernization of M-60 tanks to MAGACH-7C. (AVDS-1790-5A.)"
At my time, the vehicles for the reserve forces were kept in dry storage and were supposed to be operational without constant maintenance.
These numbers seem to fit the numbers of INSS, no?
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