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Thread: Sultan Salahuddin Ayubi

  1. #1
    DOR M_S's Avatar
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    Wasnt he a kurd?

    If so, from which city?

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    Member Jedburgh's Avatar
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    Yup, Salah ad-Din was a Kurd, born in Tikrit, grew up among Arabs and was trained in the military arts by Seljuk Turks.

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    Member MickCollins's Avatar
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    On the other hand, when the Sultan captured Jerusalem in 1187, he gave free pardon to the Christians living in the city.
    No, he didn't. He gave free passage to anyone who could pay their way out of the city. Those who couldn't were collectively marched to the coast and sold as slaves. That article has some issues.

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    Just a lot of BS..

    Europe withdraw from the holy land because the orginal Pope's proclamation had lost it's meaning and because european kingdoms were focusing on wars in EUROPE. The time for divine callings simply was no more.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor
    Just a lot of BS..

    Europe withdraw from the holy land because the orginal Pope's proclamation had lost it's meaning and because european kingdoms were focusing on wars in EUROPE. The time for divine callings simply was no more.

    Your post has a a lot of BS

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    I remember talking with several Arabs about the subject of great strategists amongst Arab fighters , with a connection to history of Arab Israeli wars . The funny thing is that the first (and that was everybody) name they always said was - "Salah E-Din" . While I was correcting them to the small fact that Salah was never an Arab but a Kurd , reaction went from disbellief to .... well , disbellief

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    Member MickCollins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquisitor
    Your post has a a lot of BS
    Nope, he makes a good point. It wasn't the only reason the Crusader states failed but it was a big one. The article states that there was still wave after wave of Crusaders coming East when that wasn't the case. The leaders of the Crusader states begged for more soldiers from Europe and were often told they couldn't be spared. Which meant they should have laid low. Instead, they poked at Saladin until he smashed the hell out of them. The Crusader states were not only stupid but stupid and outnumbered which is a bad combo. Even the Third Crusade had manpower problems because most of the German Crusaders went home rather than follow the English or French.

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    Senior Member shadower's Avatar
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    Just watched kingdom of heaven one hour ago nice movie well done it ended *hity it should have part two.

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    Gentlemen.

    "Kingdoms of heaven" is Hollywood - and it is defiently NOT history. Just check f.i., who Balian d'Ibelin was...

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    DOR M_S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor
    Just a lot of BS..

    Europe withdraw from the holy land because the orginal Pope's proclamation had lost it's meaning and because european kingdoms were focusing on wars in EUROPE. The time for divine callings simply was no more.


    Thor, really, your opinion is BS.
    You are pathetic.

  11. #11
    Senior Member shadower's Avatar
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    I am avere of holliwood need to F UP the history,but they have to sell the movie and that is probably one of the reasons.

    Here is more historic facts about king of Jurusalem lords etc,...
    (1) Kings and Succession to the Throne

    The succession of kings is as follows:

    Godfrey of Bouillon, elected Lord of Jerusalem, 22 July, 1099, did not assume the royal crown and died 18 July, 1100, having strengthened the new conquest by his victory over the Egyptians at Ascalon (12 August, 1099).
    After his death the barons invited his brother Baldwin, Count of Edessa, to assume the lordship of Jerusalem. Baldwin accepted and had himself crowned King of Jerusalem by the Patriarch Daimbert in the basilica of Bethlehem (25 December, 1100). Baldwin I (1100-1118) was the real founder of the kingdom. With the aid of new crusaders, and more especially the help afforded by the Genoese, Pisan, and Venetian fleets he took possession of the principal cities on the coast of Syria. Besides, the Countship of Tripoli and the Principality of Edessa became fiefs of the new kingdom, but the Principality of Antioch preserved its independence. Baldwin I attacked even the Caliphate of Egypt but died at El-Arish (1118) in the course of this expedition.
    His cousin, Baldwin du Bourg, Count of Edessa, was chosen by the barons to succeed him. Baldwin II (1118-1131), who had followed Godfrey of Bouillon to the crusade, was a valiant knight and, in 1124, took possession of Tyre. In 1129 he married his daughter Mélisende to Fulc, Count of Anjou, who was the father of Geoffrey Plantagenet and already sixty years of age.
    Fulc (1131-1141) succeeded his father-in-law.
    Under his son, Baldwin III (1144-1162), who married Theodora Comnena, the kingdom attained its greatest dimensions after the capture of Ascalon (1153), but the principality of Edessa was wrested from it in 1144.
    Amaury I (1162-1174), brother of Baldwin III, succeeded to the throne on the latter's death, being only twenty-seven years of age. He was one of Jerusalem's most brilliant sovereigns, and thought to profit by the anarchy that prevailed in Egypt in order to acquire possession of that country, reaching Cairo twice (1167 and 1168); and, for the moment, having Egypt under his protectorate. But the formation of Saladin's power soon placed the kingdom in peril.
    Amaury died prematurely in 1174, leaving as his successor his son Baldwin IV (1174-1185), a very gifted young man, who had been the pupil of William of Tyre, but who was attacked with leprosy and rendered incapable of taking charge of affairs. He at first reigned under the guardianship of Milon de Planci and, assisted by Renaud de Châtillon, inflicted a defeat upon Saladin at Ramleh (1177).
    By 1182 the dreadful disease had gained such headway that the unfortunate Baldwin "the Leprous" ("le Mesel") had the son of his sister Sibylla by the Count of Montferrat crowned under the name of Baldwin V. He also had Sibylla take as her second husband Guy of Lusignan, who had put himself at Baldwin's service and had been appointed by him regent of the kingdom. However, as Guy seemed incompetent, the barons took the regency away from him and confided it to Raymond, Count of Tripoli. Baldwin IV died in 1185, at the age of twenty-five, without having married, and left the kingdom a prey to discord and exposed to the attacks of Saladin.
    The young Baldwin V, his nephew, died in 1186, supposedly of poisoning.
    It was largely due to the instrumentality of Renaud de Châtillon that the barons elected Guy of Lusignan, (1186-1192) and Sibylla sovereigns of Jerusalem. Incapable of defending his kingdom against Saladin, Guy was made prisoner at the battle of Tiberias (4 July, 1187), which was followed by the capture of Jerusalem (2 October), and purchased his liberty by yielding Ascalon to Saladin. The Kingdom of Jerusalem was destroyed. Then took place the Crusade of Saint-Jean d'Acre, of which Guy commenced the siege in 1188. However, Queen Sibylla died in 1190 and Conrad of Montferrat, who had married Isabella, Sibylla's sister, disputed the title of king with Guy of Lusignan, and this rivalry lasted throughout the siege of Saint-Jean d'Acre, which city capitulated 11 July, 1191. On 28 July, Richard Coeur de Lion, King of England, imposed his arbitration upon the two rivals and decided that Guy should be king during his lifetime and have Conrad for his successor, the latter to receive Beirut, Tyre, and Sidon as guarantees; but on 29 April, 1192, Conrad was assassinated by emissaries of the "Old Man of the Mountain". Guy, on his side, renounced the title of king (May, 1192) and purchased the Island of Cyprus from the Templars.
    He died in 1194 and his widow named Henry I, Count of Champagne (1194-1197), who was elected king, but in 1197 Henry died from an accident.
    Isabella married a fourth husband, Amaury of Lusignan (1197-1205), brother of Guy and already King of Cyprus. The turning of the course of the crusade to Constantinople obliged him to conclude a truce with the Moslems. Amaury died in 1205.
    He left an only daughter Mélisende who married Bohemond IV, Prince of Antioch. However, it was to Mary, daughter of Isabella and Conrad of Montferrat, that the barons gave the preference, and they requested the King of France to provide her with a husband.
    Philip Augustus accordingly selected John of Brienne (1210-1225), who hesitated for a long time before accepting and did not arrive in Palestine until 1210, having first obtained from the pope a considerable loan of money. He directed the Crusade of Egypt in 1218 and, after his defeat, came to the West to solicit help. Hermann von Salza, the Grand Master of the Teutonic Knights, advised him to give his only daughter Isabella (Yolande) in marriage to the Emperor Frederick II.
    In 1225, Henry of Malta, Admiral of Sicily, came to seek the young princess at Saint-Jean d'Acre, and on 9 November she married Frederick II at Brindisi. Immediately after the ceremony the emperor declared that his father-in-law must renounce the title of King of Jerusalem, and he himself adopted it in all his acts. After the death of Isabella, by whom he had a son Conrad, Frederick II attempted to take possession of his kingdom and to fulfill his crusader's vow, the execution of which he had so long deferred, and landed at Saint-Jean d'Acre (September, 1228), excommunicated by the pope and in disfavour with his new subjects. By a treaty concluded with the Sultan of Egypt, Frederick regained Jerusalem, and on 18 March, 1229, without any religious ceremony whatever, assumed the royal crown in the church of the Holy Sepulchre. Having confided the regency to Balian d'Ibelin, Lord of Sidon, he returned to Europe. To strengthen his power in the East he sent to Saint-Jean d'Acre Richard Filangieri, Marshal of the Empire, whom he named baile (guardian) of the kingdom. The new regent combated the influence of the Ibelins and tried to secure possession of the Island of Cyprus, but was conquered and had to content himself with placing an imperial garrison at Tyre (1232).
    In 1243 Conrad, son of Frederick II, having attained his majority, the court of barons declared that the regency of the emperor must cease, and invited the legitimate king to come in person and exercise his rights. Alix of Champagne, Queen of Cyprus and daughter of King Henry I, claimed the regency on the ground of being Isabella of Brienne's nearest relative; and it was conferred upon her and her second husband Ralph, Count of Soissons, the imperial garrison, besieged in Tyre, being forced to capitulate.
    On the death of Alix (1244) her son Henry of Lusignan, King of Cyprus, assumed the regency but, in the month of September, 1244, a troop of Kharizmians seized Jerusalem, whilst the Mongols threatened Antioch. After his Crusade of Egypt, St. Louis landed at Saint-Jean d'Acre (1250) and remained four years in Palestine, putting the fortresses of the kingdom in a state of defence and endeavouring to reconcile the factious barons. However, just at the time that the Christian states were menaced by the Mongols and the Mamelukes of Egypt, interior strife was at its height.
    In 1257, Henry of Lusignan having died, some of the barons acknowledged Queen Plaisance regent in the name of her son Hugh II, whereas others would give their allegiance to none other than Conradin, grandson of Frederick II. Moreover, civil war broke out at Acre between the Genoese and the Venetians, between the Hospitallers and the Templars, and on 31 July, 1258, the Venetians destroyed the Genoese fleet before Acre. The Mameluke Sultan Bibars, "the Cross-bowman" (El-Bundukdáree), recommenced the conquest of Syria without meeting any resistance and, in 1268, the last Christian cities, Tripoli, Sidon, and Acre, were cut off from one another.
    King Hugh II of Lusignan had died in 1267, and his succession was disputed by his nephew, Hugh III, already King of Cyprus, and Mary of Antioch whose maternal grandfather was Amaury of Lusignan. In 1269 the barons acknowledged Hugh III, but the new king, unable to cope with the lack of discipline among his subjects, retired to Cyprus after naming Balian d'Ibelin regent of the kingdom (1276). But, in 1277, Mary of Antioch sold her rights to Charles of Anjou, King of Naples, who, thinking to subdue the East, sent a garrison under command of Roger of San Severino to occupy Acre.
    After the Sicilian Vespers (1282), which ruined the projects of Charles of Anjou, the inhabitants of Acre expelled his seneschal and proclaimed Henry II of Cyprus (15 August, 1286) their king. But at this time the remnants of the Christian possessions were hard pressed by the Mamelukes. On 5 April, 1291, the Sultan Malek-Aschraf appeared before Saint-Jean d'Acre and, despite the courage of its defenders, the city was taken by storm on 28 May. The Kingdom of Jerusalem no longer existed, and none of the expeditions of the fourteenth century succeeded in re-establishing it.
    The title of King of Jerusalem continued to be borne in a spirit of rivalry: by the Kings of Cyprus belonging to the House of Lusignan; and by the two Houses of Anjou which claimed to hold their rights from Mary of Antioch. In 1459 Charlotte, daughter of John III, King of Cyprus, married Louis of Savoy, Count of Geneva, and in 1485 ceded her rights to Jerusalem to her nephew Charles of Savoy; hence, from that time up to 1870, the title of King of Jerusalem was borne by the princes of the House of Savoy

  12. #12
    Senior Member shadower's Avatar
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    About historic facts and the movie.
    http://hksw.org/Kingdom%20of%20Heaven.htm

  13. #13
    Member MickCollins's Avatar
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    My biggest beef with the movie was how the completely screwed with the character of Balian and tried to turn him into some sort of modern secular hero. If Balian had been some young punk like he is in the flick, no one would have followed him. Especially not if he told the local religious leaders to piss off. Instead of telling the real story of the Horns of Hattin and Siege of Jerusalem, they tried to make a half-assed allusion to the modern Middle East and that ruined the flick.

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