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Thread: The Finnish WW2 U-boat "Vesikko"

  1. #1
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    Default The Finnish WW2 U-boat "Vesikko"

    The Finnish Navy submarine fleet consisted of three types of submarines, the Vetehinen-class, the Vesikko-class and the Saukko-class. Vetehinen-class was the biggest and the Saukko-class the smallest.

    The Vetehinen-class



    Three ships:
    - The Vetehinen
    - The Iku-turso
    - The Vesihiisi
    (Their names refer to sea monsters in Finnish mythology)




    The Vesikko-class



    One ship:
    - The Vesikko (vesikko = European mink)




    The Saukko-class



    One ship:
    - The Saukko (saukko = otter)


    When the second World War ended, the peace terms ended the era of submarines in the Finnish Navy.
    The Vesikko is the only submarine left, it's now a museum in the old Suomenlinna ("Fort Finland") naval fortress, right outside Helsinki.




    The Vesikko


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    Source:
    http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/

    More about the Vesikko:
    http://www.uboat.net/boats/vesikko.htm

    More about the history of the Finnish U-boats:
    http://users.tkk.fi/~jaromaa/Navygallery/index.htm

    Wartime photos:
    http://users.tkk.fi/~jaromaa/Navygal...al/subgal1.htm
    Last edited by Lazarou; 10-22-2005 at 11:47 AM. Reason: Added new links

  2. #2
    Senior Member nagant_m44's Avatar
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    Isnt that just a german type II(A or D) and a type VII(B or C)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nagant_m44
    Isnt that just a german type II(A or D) and a type VII(B or C)?
    It can be considered a prototype of the German IIA. The Germans helped Finland in the submarine project.

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    Good post.

    During the Continuation war these submarines did a good job with keeping the Soviet Baltic Fleet trapped in Leningrad, with the help of a submarine net across the Gulf of Finland and a whole bunch of mines of course. The Finnish submarines managed to sink a large bunch of enemy combat vessels without losing a single submarine doing the war, which is of course excellent. Many many Soviet submarines got sunk in Gulf of Finland, including by being hit by torpedoes from Finnish submarines. One of the most famous cases:

    [Soviet submarine] S 7 sailed to its second patrol from Lavansaari on [1942] 18.10. It sailed through minefields and arrived to the Baltic Sea on 20.10. On 21.10 the boat surfaced and prepared to sail through Ahvenanmaa archipelago to the Gulf of Bothnia, but was sunk by a torpedo from Finnish submarine Vesihiisi. Four men, inluding the commander were saved. The wreck of the boat was located by Swedish divers in August 1998.


    I remember when they "found" this Submarine in Swedish territorial water back in 1998. It had been there all the time in a popular shipping line route, but it had been marked as rocks in the maps. A little simplified someone got to see an old pre-ww2 map from before the war, and compared it to a new map and made the connection, "aha, there is something there"


    Sonogram of S 7 in the water

    Funny thing about the Soviet commander on the S 7, Sergej Lisin, was that he was one of the survivors, he got captured and interrogated by the Finns, and later handed over to Germany and sung like a bird revealing a lot of secrets. In Soviet Union they thought that he had died and he was awarded "Hero of the Soviet Union" because he had sunk four civilian ships, among them two Swedish merchant ships killing 22 Swedes, in Swedish territorial water. When later finding out that the 33-year old captain wasn´t dead and the had been talking I guess it became a little embarassing for the Soviet brass in Leningrad. The Germans handed over Lisin to Soviet Union in an prison exchange deal during the autumn 1944. He was immediately sent to the Far east to fight Japan. 1970 he left the Soviet army.
    Last edited by Kekkonen; 10-21-2005 at 09:45 PM.

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    Does anyone know were I can find the the treaty that eanded finlands part in ww2 and the arms limitations on finland.

    Sorry for errorsa

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    Quote Originally Posted by faithless
    Does anyone know were I can find the the treaty that eanded finlands part in ww2 and the arms limitations on finland.

    Sorry for errorsa
    An armistice was signed between Soviet Union and Finland 1944. The peace however came first with the Paris treaty of 1947. Except for war reparations of $300 million gold dollars of pre-war value the treaty for Finland meant;

    Territorial: Petsamo, Salla, and Karelia ceded to the Soviet Union; Porkkala Peninsula leased to the Soviet Union for 50 years; Aland Islands demilitarized.

    Armaments: Army, navy, and air force limited to 41,900 personnel. Allowed 10,000 tons of warships and 60 planes.

    However in reality things changed quickly after Stalin died and Finland benefitted economically from having trade agreements with Soviet Union, Finnish products for Soviet oil and so forth. Due to Finnish governments during the cold war (mainly the Kekkonen era ) that was friendly towards Soviet Union they saw the opportunity to use Finland as a buffert in the north, or maybe even force Finland into the Warsaw Pact if there was a crisis, so they wanted the Finnish military to be strong (but not too strong), and delivered T-55´s MiG-21´s etc during the 1960´s that was top-modern back then. And the Finnish army mobilized had half a million men. But the treaty was officially used as a "roof". The Finnish government considered the treaty to be a thing of the past in the early 1990´s when considering new fighter planes, 64 were ordered (thus more than the treaty allowed).
    Last edited by Kekkonen; 10-21-2005 at 10:24 PM.

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    thanks for trhe info.

    So basicaly the limitations are there but not realy followed by finland.TYhats what yoyr sai'n right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by faithless
    thanks for trhe info.

    So basicaly the limitations are there but not realy followed by finland.TYhats what yoyr sai'n right.
    The Finnish government announced that the treaty was no longer binding in any way since Soviet Union, well simply had stopped existing. However there were more states signing the Paris treaty, such as Great Britain and so forth, but I guess all the others couldnīt care less if Finland had 60 or 64 fighterplanes (itīs 62 F-18C/Dīs now btw since two have been lost in accidents).

    Also already during the cold war the treaty was quite loosely followed because Finland was after all friendly towards and with Soviet Union, for example Finland wasnīt allowed to have torpedo boats, but there were a lot of "fast patrol crafts", and there were a lot of torpedo tubes on land that could be installed in 10 minutes on those boats. Of course Soviet Union knew about this, but they didnīt really care enough to do anything about it.

    Iīd say that Austria got a lot worse treaty on them, they were for example not allowed to have missiles on their fighterplanes, as the Finns had. And after the 1950īs missiles was what it was all about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by faithless
    thanks for trhe info.

    So basicaly the limitations are there but not realy followed by finland.TYhats what yoyr sai'n right.
    They're not there anymore. The treaty became worthless when the other party (The Evil Empire&#169 seized to exist.

    EDIT: Damn Kekkonen...

  10. #10
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    Thanks guys for the infomatoin I always wandered wether finland stuckto the treaty since I first herad about it.Thanks

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    vary good photos

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kekkonen
    Finland had 60 or 64 fighterplanes (itīs 62 F-18C/Dīs now btw since two have been lost in accidents).
    It should be 63 again sometime in near future. The airforce finally got the extra budget they've been wanting to repair and convert the damaged F-18C to F-18D model.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anv2
    It should be 63 again sometime in near future. The airforce finally got the extra budget they've been wanting to repair and convert the damaged F-18C to F-18D model.
    Very off-topic, but why the conversion from C to D on this damaged bird?

  14. #14
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    technology testbed for future upgrades of the rest of the fleet?

    I don't know I'm just guessing

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kekkonen
    Very off-topic, but why the conversion from C to D on this damaged bird?
    The only reason I've heard of is that the airforce simply wants more F-18s for training purposes. Currently they have only seven F-18Ds.

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