View Poll Results: Best Tank?

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  • M-1 Abrams

    9 1.59%
  • Leopard 2A6

    22 3.89%
  • British Challenger 2

    6 1.06%
  • LeClerc

    1 0.18%
  • T-80UM2

    0 0%
  • T-90

    4 0.71%
  • 524 92.58%
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Thread: Who's Got the Best Tank?

  1. #1
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    Default Who's Got the Best Tank?

    by James Dunnigan
    January 8, 2004

    Most people would say it's the American M-1 Abrams. Their reasoning would be simple; the M-1 has actually fought in two wars since 1991 and handily defeated whatever was sent against it. Tank buffs, however, tend to look more closely at details casual observers ignore. The buffs tend to consider the German Leopard 2A6 as superior to the latest model M-1A2. The Leopard 2A6 has a longer 120mm gun barrel, giving it's shells greater penetration. The Leopard also has reactive armor for the top of the tank, where the latest top-attack missiles seek to penetrate the thinner armor there. The Leopard also has a number of other novel touches, like a video cam facing to the rear of the tank, and hooked up to a screen in the drivers compartment. This allows to driver to go into reverse more quickly and confidently. Backing up quickly is a frequently used combat maneuver. The Leopard also has a diesel engine, rather than the fuel guzzling gas turbine (jet engine) of the M-1. Thus the M-1 has a little more zip, but the Leopard gets much better gas mileage.

    But a tank does not stand by itself. It is part of a combat force, and the most important component is the crew. In this department, the M-1 has several advantages. Most importantly, American tank crews have had a lot of combat experience since World War II, German crews have had none. While German training is good, they are still using conscript crews, while U.S. tankers are all volunteers and in service longer. American combat doctrine has also developed more rapidly than Germany's and currently makes heavy use of the battlefield Internet and superior situational awareness. All of this makes an enormous difference. A tank is not the sum of all it's parts, it's only as good as the system it operates within. Here the M-1 has a big edge. Moreover, the Americans get an additional slight edge because of their willingness to use depleted uranium in their composite armor, and tank shells. Then again, if the U.S. and German switched tanks, the Leopards with American crews would be superior.

    The other tanks in the "top ten" are remarkably similar. Most have composite armor, and often reactive armor as well. All have guns similar to the M-1 and Leopard's 120mm smoothbore. The British Challenger 2 is usually ranked third. But, again, because the British armor units have had combat experience since World War II and use volunteers, they have an edge. Because the Americans have more proven combat technology, the M-1 would still be first, but the Challenger 2 would be second and the German Leopard third.

    Things really get interesting when you try to fill the fourth place slot. There are a lot of high tech tanks out there. The French have the LeClerc, the Japanese have the T-90, the South Koreans have the Type 88/120 and Israel has the Merkava 4. Again, the edge should go to the tank that has the best crews and the most combat experience. That would be the Merkava 4. While lacking a lot of the gadgets of the other tanks mentioned above, the Merkava has an edge because of combat experience and crews with years of working together. Although most Israeli tank crews are reservists, many of the troops have combat experience and the crews often stick together for decades. This makes for very effective crews and tank units.

    Fifth place belongs to the South Korean Type 88/120. This tank was developed by the same people who created the M-1. Some call it the "Baby M-1", as it is a bit lighter than the M-1 (51 tons versus nearly 70 tons), but otherwise uses the same design principles. Most important is the fact that the South Korean crews know that they have a deadly foe just to the north. This provides a little pucker factor to the training, which is run using a lot of American techniques.

    Sixth place is tricky and is a toss up between the French LeClerc and the Japanese Type 90. The edge goes to the Japanese tank. Both vehicles weigh about the same and use similar weapons. But the Japanese have better electronics and crews that have been together longer. Plus, all things considered, I be a little more fearful of a bunch of Japanese crews in their Type 90s than French crews in their LeClercs.

    Seventh place, by default, goes to the LeClerc.

    Eighth place would be the Russian T-80UM2. This tank uses a lot of new protective technology (to detect and defeat anti-tank missiles), several armor systems and lots of electronics. Unfortunately, the workmanship is slipshod and the crews mostly conscripts and poorly led.

    Ninth place goes to the new Chinese Type 98. This is another of those "improved T-72s." Lots of improvements, though, many of them similar to what's found in the Russian T-80UM2. The workmanship on these vehicles is a little better than on the T-80UM2, but the Chinese don't have as much experience building tanks. This has shown itself in the numerous technical glitches that have shown up. The Chinese are moving to volunteer crews and more intensive training.

    Tenth place goes to the Russian T-90, which is actually an upgraded T-72. Not as effective an upgrade as the T-80UM2 or the Chinese Type 98.

    Most of the remaining tanks in the world are Russian T-72s and T-55s, and US M-60s and M-48s. China builds clones of these Russian tanks, and other countries build variations on the T-72 and older British tanks. The M-60s, with the latest upgrades (thermal sights and computerized fire control systems) and well trained crews could be contenders for the 8-10 positions. But all those T-72s and T-55s serve largely as targets. However, as experience in the Arab-Israeli wars and World War II amply demonstrated, technically "inferior" tanks with superior crews will rule the battlefield.
    http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/200418.asp

  2. #2
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  3. #3
    Clog Boy Haiw's Avatar
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    Just curious, are those popnails on those Leo's? I thought those weren't used in tank design since WW2...

  4. #4
    Member crazyman's Avatar
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    until another MBT runs up as good a record in combat, im going to have to go with the M1 series. also glad to see whoever wrote the article included the human aspect. a tank is just a piece of equipment, the crew running it and the doctrine they follow are as, if not more important as the actual vehicle. camera in the rear of the tank is a nice touch though

  5. #5
    Senior Member Operation Ivy's Avatar
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    AHHHHHHH not this thread

    In my mind there is no modern battle tank that can be called the "best tank". All modern tanks can go against each other and it really would be first shot wins.











    and btw Leo=Gay

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    Senior Member oldsoak's Avatar
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    Whatevers tank is on your side and giving you effective support is the best tank in the world !

    just my 2d

  8. #8
    Senior Member Operation Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldsoak
    Whatevers tank is on your side and giving you effective support is the best tank in the world !

    just my 2d


    and scoone u cant post a pic like that and get away with it


  9. #9
    Senior Member Falco's Avatar
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    Hehehe... Norwegian tankers on those last two pic's...
    Notice the smile on the commanders face on the bottom one...

    "I screwd up, and I KNOW it..." hehehe "It LOOKED like a shortcut"

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    **** happens everywhere!!!

  12. #12
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    BTW , I forgot to include the Merkava in the poll, if anyone likes it please let us know!

  13. #13
    Member AirZone's Avatar
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    Merkava MK4>*

  14. #14

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    The Korean MBTs are K1(105) and K1A1(120)..

    type 88??

  15. #15
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    Type 88 K1 Main Battle Tank
    North Korea quantitatively leads South Korea in most classes of military equipment, such as number of personnel, tanks, artilleries, tactical missiles and operational aircraft. However, the South is qualitatively considerably stronger. It operates modern tanks such as the Hyundai-built Type 88 introduced in 1988, compared to North Korea's T-62, which made up the major component of the former Soviet Union's tank force during the 1970's.
    The K-1 rolls across the ground on hard rubber tracks at 40 miles per hour. Its crew sits inside a four-inch thick aluminum alloy shell. It can carry forty-six 105 mm shells that scream out of the canon to a range of 30 kilometers. The laser sighting system guarantees the highest level of accuracy in any conditions. This "hunt or kill" targeting system can even account for wind velocity. The targeting system is proven to be perfect between 400 and 8,000 meters.

    The South Korean Type 88 K1 Main Battle Tank, which was developed indigenously, is system-integrated in Korea by Hyundai Precision using major components from several different countries. Ssangyong Heavy Industries' military diesel engines for K1 tank are manufactured under license from MTU of Germany. In May 1996 Hughes Aircraft Company awarded a contract to Kuchera Defense Systems to manufacture electronic assemblies for programs such as the the Korean K-1 Tank Program. Deliveries of the 105-mm K1 to the South Korean army were completed in 1997. Hyundai has also successfully undertaken the development of the K-1 Armored Recovery Vehicle and Armored Vehicle Launched Bridge both based on the K-1 main battle tank. In 1997 Malaysia announced a plan to purchase about 210 tanks worth $730 million by the end of the century. Hyundai Precision offered to sell 105 mm K1 tanks. Its competitors are Poland"s T-72 and Germany"s Mark 3 (M).

    Hyundai is continuing to develop, upgrade and enhance the range of defense products it manufactures by using the experience acquired through the development and production of the 88 tank and other vehicles. The first K1A1 tank with 120 mm main armament rolled off the production line at Hyundai on 03 April 1996. The K1A1 features various enhanced functions compared to the existing K1 tanks, including a primary armament of double the penetration power. The new tank's 120mm gun can penetrate up to 600 mm thick armored vehicles while the old model's 105mm gun could only penetrate up to 300 mm. The effective firing range also has increased to 2 kilometers from the previous 1.2 kilometers. The development of the up-gunned 120mm K1A1 has been hampered by difficulties in updating the 120mm gun. Production of the K1A1 tank is set to start in early 2000.


    Specifications
    Crew 4
    Armament One M68A1 105mm rifled gun; or 120mm gun [K1A1
    one 7.62mm co-axial machine-gun;
    one 12.7mm anti-aircraft machine-gun;
    12 smoke discharges (six on each turret)

    Armour Composite
    Length (including main armament) 31ft 9in (9.67m)
    length (hull) 24ft 6in (7.48m)
    width 11ft 10in (3.60m)
    height 7ft 5in (2.25m)
    Weight 112,335 lb (51,000kg) [53.2 tons K1A1]
    Ground Pressure 12.23 lb/in sq (0.86kg/cm sq)
    Engine MTU 871 Ka-501 12 cylinder water-cooled diesel engine developing 1,200hp at 2,600rpm
    Road speed 40 mph (65km/h)
    range 310 miles (500km)
    vertical obstacle 3ft 4in (1.0m)
    trench 9ft 0in (2.74m)
    gradient 60°

    From
    http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/l...ype-88-mbt.htm

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